Black Catholics In The U.s.

[flip]

and this was dope in ladybug's post:


"elements from the traditions and cultures of individual peoples"(Sacred Liturgy, 37, 40). The use of vernacular languages and cultural symbols and adapted rituals within the Church's liturgy is a sign of Catholic unity and serves to bring all peoples and cultures into the worship of God, who rejoices in the beauty of everything he has made.


i think it answers all the smack people are talking about...

[jmjtina]

How did you interpret this?

[quote]"elements from the traditions and cultures of individual peoples"(Sacred Liturgy, 37, 40). The use of vernacular languages and cultural symbols and adapted rituals within the Church's liturgy is a sign of Catholic unity and serves to bring all peoples and cultures into the worship of God, who rejoices in the beauty of everything he has made.[/quote]

I think some are still unable to differentiate between what we understand (and how the Church defines it) [b][u]culture[/u][/b][i] which you seem to be using interchangably [/i]with hip-hop in the [i]U.S. Mass [/i] and an African Mass (or Mexican Mass, etc), then we are going to keep going in circles.

What that actually means and what you are interpreting are two different things. Look at the whole, not just one paragraph. You have to look at the [i]whole picture[/i].

There is a difference between culture and preference, and no, not culture in the sense of music, but people. No one identifies themselves by the music they listen to. What I'm saying is, I'm Hispanic, your (fill in your heritage) You are defining culture by music, whereas culture is the people, which is everything about the people, not one small detail. That is why the African Mass is different than the Mass in Mexico and the Mass in Korea and drastically different than the U.S.

"The Church cannot change, we must change." ~ The Apologist

God Bless.
+JMJ

Edited July 12, 2004 by jmjtina

[flip]

hip hop is a culture.... i thought that we established long ago. all hip hop heads will say this. hip hop goes way beyond music, i think that everybody knows that...

[Oik]

Flip, I think you are really streching it there. What qulifies as culture in the Catholic church is defined by the appropriate authorities, bro.

At least look at it like this. The culture of the United States of America is diverse. So, The Church looks at the thngs that really constitue american culture, not the different groups that compose the American culture. I understand that this might seem like a fine line, but the Church does this to ensure unity.

[M.SIGGA]

Me = black (mixed), Catholic, from Louisiana

The Catholic Church never (in Rome) condoned the ownership and sale of slaves. Catholic officials, including local clergyman in the Americas, however did "tolerate" the practice. Catholics in Louisiana, especially French Creoles were extremely liberal and anti-clerical since many of them and their families travelled to the colonies after the French Revolution. Many were also into Freemasonry. Nationalism and Revolutions also interfered with how doctrine was taught and interpreted in the French and Spanish colonies by the clergy.

FYI there is something called the [u]African American Catholic Hymnal [/u]also titled [u]Lead Me Guide Me [/u]which preserves black gospel heritage as traditional songs and hymns that can be carried into liturgical worship. We use it at my church at home, and it's also in a lot of churches around New Orleans and throughout Louisiana.

There are also two liturgies composed by Leon C. Roberts called the "Mass of St. Martin DePorres" and the "Mass of St. Augustine," where Gospel music is intergrated directly into the liturgy. BTW all NCCB approved, etc.

Plus there are a ton of Black Catholic people where I live; the Archdiocese of New Orleans even hosts a black/Afro-centric Catholic youth event every year. It has Gospel, Hiphop (like with "MaryMary" "Kirk Franklin" "Donnie McClurkin" "Fred Hammond" type stuff) etc...

[flip]

nope. sorry. there are black people in America. White people in America. Native AMERICANS in America. Chinese people in America. Filipino people in America. American Youth is a culture. Urban is a culture (hip hop is here). Suburban is a culture.
... all in America... all different cultures. sorry bro, "America" is not a culture...its a country that harbors many different cultures.

And where specifically does the Catholic Church deem an "American" culture? That would be ridiculous. and if so, why is there not one solidified type of music that is used in EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN MASS?

Ratzinger himself says that all cultures need to be confronted and embraced in community... try again.

[M.SIGGA]

I think there is just a comunication problem; Catholic folks in some areas in the country with not that many types of ethnic people only see the Church from one perspective, namely their own parish or diocese.

[flip]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jul 13 2004, 12:06 AM'] Me = black (mixed), Catholic, from Louisiana

The Catholic Church never (in Rome) condoned the ownership and sale of slaves. Catholic officials, including local clergyman in the Americas, however did "tolerate" the practice. Catholics in Louisiana, especially French Creoles were extremely liberal and anti-clerical since many of them and their families travelled to the colonies after the French Revolution. Many were also into Freemasonry. Nationalism and Revolutions also interfered with how doctrine was taught and interpreted in the French and Spanish colonies by the clergy.

FYI there is something called the [u]African American Catholic Hymnal [/u]also titled [u]Lead Me Guide Me [/u]which preserves black gospel heritage as traditional songs and hymns that can be carried into liturgical worship. We use it at my church at home, and it's also in a lot of churches around New Orleans and throughout Louisiana.

There are also two liturgies composed by Leon C. Roberts called the "Mass of St. Martin DePorres" and the "Mass of St. Augustine," where Gospel music is intergrated directly into the liturgy. BTW all NCCB approved, etc.

Plus there are a ton of Black Catholic people where I live; the Archdiocese of New Orleans even hosts a black/Afro-centric Catholic youth event every year. It has Gospel, Hiphop (like with "MaryMary" "Kirk Franklin" "Donnie McClurkin" "Fred Hammond" type stuff) etc... [/quote]
THis is what im talking about!!!

see culture existing in America, and the Church helping perserve culture and utilizing it as a part of worship! PRAISE GOD!!!

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 12 2004, 03:47 PM'] My mother was a cathecism teacher, and she told me that black people were sons of Ham and were being punished by God for their disobedience. She taught this in cathecism. [/quote]
Hey, this isn't about music, but is actually from Genesis and the reason of the branch split that created the Southern Baptist Conv. It's misinterpreted from Gen 9 that all negro people are descended from Noah's cursed son Ham, and was commonly accepted by many ignorant/racist southerners, blk and white, Catholic and Protestant, from the SBC influence during Reconstruction. The Methodist Church split for the same reason, but their reasoning is that a "cursed" pastor shouldn't be given authority over a white one. It's true that black priests and nuns in the U.S. were not accepted by some of their racist parishoners, but that's not doctrinal racism and it's defintely not Baltimore Catechism yo!

Anyway, for topic's sake, evr'ybody check out "Donnie McKlurkin- Live in London."

[jmjtina]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Jul 13 2004, 12:06 AM'] Me = black (mixed), Catholic, from Louisiana

The Catholic Church never (in Rome) condoned the ownership and sale of slaves. Catholic officials, including local clergyman in the Americas, however did "tolerate" the practice. Catholics in Louisiana, especially French Creoles were extremely liberal and anti-clerical since many of them and their families travelled to the colonies after the French Revolution. Many were also into Freemasonry. Nationalism and Revolutions also interfered with how doctrine was taught and interpreted in the French and Spanish colonies by the clergy.

FYI there is something called the [u]African American Catholic Hymnal [/u]also titled [u]Lead Me Guide Me [/u]which preserves black gospel heritage as traditional songs and hymns that can be carried into liturgical worship. We use it at my church at home, and it's also in a lot of churches around New Orleans and throughout Louisiana.

There are also two liturgies composed by Leon C. Roberts called the "Mass of St. Martin DePorres" and the "Mass of St. Augustine," where Gospel music is intergrated directly into the liturgy. BTW all NCCB approved, etc.

Plus there are a ton of Black Catholic people where I live; the Archdiocese of New Orleans even hosts a black/Afro-centric Catholic youth event every year. It has Gospel, Hiphop (like with "MaryMary" "Kirk Franklin" "Donnie McClurkin" "Fred Hammond" type stuff) etc... [/quote]
cool sigga, sounds alot like our Flor y Canto.....only we're Hispanic. The Church does preserve our cultures and traditions that have been around for a long time because it's been passed through generations for years.

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Pray for Us.

[flip]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jul 13 2004, 02:00 AM'] cool sigga, sounds alot like our Flor y Canto.....only we're Hispanic. The Church does preserve our cultures and traditions that have been around for a long time because it's been passed through generations for years.

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Pray for Us. [/quote]
AMEN!


diff cultures = tru universal church!

passed down from generations...culture has to start somewhere!

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 13 2004, 12:09 AM'] nope. sorry. there are black people in America. White people in America. Native AMERICANS in America. Chinese people in America. Filipino people in America. American Youth is a culture. Urban is a culture (hip hop is here). Suburban is a culture.
... all in America... all different cultures. sorry bro, "America" is not a culture...its a country that harbors many different cultures.

And where specifically does the Catholic Church deem an "American" culture? That would be ridiculous. and if so, why is there not one solidified type of music that is used in EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN MASS?

Ratzinger himself says that all cultures need to be confronted and embraced in community... try again. [/quote]
I agree with Flip. America is multi-cultural.

[flip]

check out what the tag to the Muzik lounge is:

"Get down with the funky Catholic hip-hop culture. Rappers need friends too."

[Carrie]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Jul 12 2004, 03:16 PM'] I'm also working on getting more mixed kids into the church, if ya know what I mean. [/quote]


Am I the only one who got this?

[MichaelFilo]

As far as black Catholics, I know theres alot in Lousiana. My English teacher ( gonna be Journalism teacher next year ) is probably one of the coolest people I know. He says he doesn't go to church as much as he likes to, but he knows what he's talking about. He does stuff so well, and is proper and is the coolest person ever. He loves jazz and is a poet, and he kinda links the rap of today to the songs the slaves used to sing. Man, he's awesome. Anyways, I'm sure he'd listen to Catholic rap if I tell him about it.

Anyways, I ain't black, but full bred from Baghdad, so maybe I'm another not-so-common person.

God bless,

Michael Filo