Black Catholics In The U.s.

[ladybug]

“We have grown up in a European-centered Church,” adds Congress leader Stanley. “In some places, if you say ‘Amen’ out loud, people see you as a freak.” A Church that welcomes and celebrates African-American culture, he says, “helps black people realize, ‘I don’t need to check my blackness [at the door] when I walk into the church. I can be black and be Catholic.’”

The directors help celebrate black culture by creating fraternal organizations for African-Americans in their dioceses and by holding revivals and gospel Masses. “We like a little different music and a little different celebration,” says Joseph Powell of New Jersey. A parish in his diocese holds a gospel Mass twice a month, and he helped establish a Martin de Porres Society, named for the 17th-century Peruvian black saint, a Dominican friar who founded an orphanage and a hospital for children.

The civil-rights movement led to radical changes for African-American Catholics. Some of these were unfortunate: in the South, the Church made the mistake of closing black churches, saying the parishioners were now welcome to attend the “regular church.” In parishes once exclusively white, many African-Americans felt no sense of belonging.

[url="http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Feb2001/feature1.asp"]http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/...01/feature1.asp[/url]

[flip]

i know that tehre is one balck catholic hurch here in dallas. the gospel choir came to our mas at my university and tore down the house. i am jeoulous of the reverence and acclamations that they get to to expierence and show throughout the Mass...

these churches are predominatly in Lousiana as well. but sadly, most african americans are turned off by the catholic church because there is not a catholic foothold in thier culture...

i mean, i bet there are hardly any black peeps here at phatmass... i might be making a generalization...but where are they?

[MC Just]

i dont understand why, people can't just take the mass as it is and is suppose to be. We are suppose to adjust ourselves for the church, not adjust the church for ourselves.

Edited July 12, 2004 by MC Just

[MC Just]

There's a show on EWTN called "Black and Roman Catholic" It's a great show.

[dUSt]

I know many black Catholics. Both St Maria Goretti and St Joseph in Arlington have lots. Most of the one's at St Joe's are native Africans though--in fact, we have an African choir (which I actually prefer over the normal choir) that performs on special occasions.

I'm also working on getting more mixed kids into the church, if ya know what I mean.

[ladybug]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Jul 12 2004, 11:49 AM'] i dont understand why, people can't just take the mass as it is and is suppose to be. We are suppose to adjust ourselves for the church, not adjust the church for ourselves. [/quote]
You are not understanding what our church IS. Certain things stay the same, and other things continually change and grow.

The church is living, evolving and growing. It is not static!!

We cannot force all the people's of the world to listen to Gregorian chant. We cannot strip people of their culture. It has nothing to do with salvation and the eucharist.

Listening to gregorian chant should not be a prerequisite to getting into heaven.

Not once have I been to a mass with gregorian chant. I grew up with cheesy folk music and guitars. And you know what, I hated it but I ignored it because it does not matter in the big picture.

Jesus did not say "Thou shalt listen to Gregorian Chant while receiving my body and blood". If the church stayed exactly the same, clergy would still have slaves. The church approved of slaves at one time and they don't anymore. Things in the church will change in our lifetimes, and we have to determine which of the elements are idols, and which of the elements are things that will never pass away. We should not turn european classical music into an idol.

It is our fault if people are driven away from the eucharist because we are forced to do other irrelevant things to get to the eucharist. It's like holding the eucharist over people's heads and saying you cannot have this until you are just like me.

Part of being a catholic means accepting differences in people. Differences make us beautiful. If a garden had only one kind of flower in it, it would be a boring garden. God makes different kinds of flowers that grow at different paces and have different colors and scents and petals. I am OPEN to being purged of all things I am attached to. If I'm attached to gregorian chant to the point where I've turned that into the sacred instead of the eucharist, then something is wrong. If all of the music and art and incense is taken away, I will still worship the Eucharist. If I were to end up in an all urban church I would not care. All I care about is the eucharist.

"Racial Reconciliation" - Cardinal Francis E. George
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cardinal Francis E. George's Pastoral on Racism, Dwell in My Love, in Condensed Form

(My favorite exerpts from this article):

1)We meet God in the created, visible, tangible surroundings of the home, the neighborhood and the workplace. We encounter God in and through our spouse, children, brothers and sisters, the family next door, the shopkeeper on the corner, our teachers, the stranger on the street. In short, we meet God in and through people of every color, ethnic background, religion, class and gender. God is active in and through the people, places and circumstances that constitute our ordinary daily life.

2) Our desire as disciples of Jesus is to support people of every race and ethnic group in enjoying their human rights and freedom. We are called to promote love, justice and what Pope John Paul II has called a "culture of life." Until all are free to live anywhere in our society without fear of reprisal or violence, none of us is completely free.

3) The Second Vatican Council acknowledged and supported cultural diversity in the Church when it encouraged the "fostering of the qualities and talents of the various races and nations" and the "careful and prudent" admission into the Church's life of <b>"elements from the traditions and cultures of individual peoples"(Sacred Liturgy, 37, 40). The use of vernacular languages and cultural symbols and adapted rituals within the Church's liturgy is a sign of Catholic unity and serves to bring all peoples and cultures into the worship of God, who rejoices in the beauty of everything he has made.</b>

4) Loving only people who are just like ourselves, loving only those who are members of our biological family or who share our own ethnic or cultural background, our own political views or our own class assumptions, does not fulfill the challenge of the gospel: "If you love only those who love you, what reward can you expect; even the tax collectors do as much as that" (Mt 5:46-48; Lk 6:32-34, 36).

5) Our failure to live the gospel of God's unconditional and universal love in culturally and racially inclusive parishes and communities contributes to our society's failure to confront the sin of racism.

6) From diverse ethnic and racial backgrounds, we accept and embrace in faith the love of God that compels us to dwell together in love. After reflecting on the historical, social and economic dimensions of our complicity with the sin of racism, we ask as Catholics for the grace of conversion from the sin of racism, which has separated us from our neighbor and from God.

7) Listening and welcoming, the Church is a place of encounter, of racial dialogue and intercultural collaboration. In a context of universal mutual respect born of love, the Church offers the gifts that transform the world and bring salvation in this life AND the next.

taken from: www.americancatholic.org/...ac0701.asp

[dUSt]

[quote name='ladybug' date='Jul 12 2004, 01:36 PM'] The church approved of slaves at one time and they don't anymore. [/quote]
When did the church approve of slavery?

[MC Just]

i dont recall the church approving of slavery. Individual catholics may have, but not Church authorities. The church fought against slavery.

[RemnantRules]

I have studied a great deal on the Civil War and the Slave issue, and now i've tapped that out i look towards Catholics in the Civil War and before, And i have not found anything stating that the Catholic Church was for slavery, yes there were catholics that had slaves but like Just said, the authorties never approved it.

It's like saying that the Catholics turned their back on Jews during WW II, which is false also. Catholic priests, sisters, brothers, and everybody in Rome were hidding Jews all in there Convents and Churches.

That's why i feel that i'm sure many Catholics did it here in the US during the time of Slavery, but i don't know this last paragraph for sure it's my opininion.

Hope this helps!
God Bless
Jason Gregory

[ladybug]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Jul 12 2004, 03:20 PM'] When did the church approve of slavery? [/quote]

My ancestors, all catholic, many who built and founded the Catholic churches in New Orleans, owned hundreds of slaves. I have the records in my family tree documents. These slave owners in my catholic family were treated with respect by the Catholic church, and held positions of authority. They were not denied communion or any of the sacraments.

On the St. Anthony Messenger Press site they talk about black people having to sit at the back of the pew and how clergy took their slaves to mass with them.

My mother was a cathecism teacher, and she told me that black people were sons of Ham and were being punished by God for their disobedience. She taught this in cathecism.

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 12 2004, 11:46 AM'] i know that tehre is one balck catholic hurch here in dallas. the gospel choir came to our mas at my university and tore down the house. i am jeoulous of the reverence and acclamations that they get to to expierence and show throughout the Mass...

these churches are predominatly in Lousiana as well. but sadly, most african americans are turned off by the catholic church because there is not a catholic foothold in thier culture...

i mean, i bet there are hardly any black peeps here at phatmass... i might be making a generalization...but where are they? [/quote]
Sacred Music
1. The Council drew attention to the age-old tradition of sacred music and singing, closely linked to the liturgy; and the Constitution declares that worship becomes more noble when it is carried out with solemn singing, especially when the celebrant, ministers and people take an active part.

2. Great attention is to be paid to the teaching and practice of sacred music, in harmony with training and instruction in the liturgy.

3. Gregorian chant is especially suited to the Roman liturgy, [b]but other kinds of sacred music must not be excluded. In mission lands where the people have their own characteristic musical traditions, these traditions also should be incorporated into Christian worship. [/b]

4. In the Latin Church, the pipe organ is recognized as the traditional musical instrument, but other instruments maybe used provided that they can be adapted for use in divine worship.

The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council
Dedicated to "The Immaculate".
[url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v1.html"]http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v1.html[/url]

Edited July 12, 2004 by ladybug

[Aloysius]

The Pope called for all Catholics not to participate in the African Slave Trade, it was disobedience that led to all of those slave owners. you know, DISOBEDIENCE, what AmericanCatholic.org is infamous for

Pax

[ladybug]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 12 2004, 04:21 PM'] The Pope called for all Catholics not to participate in the African Slave Trade, it was disobedience that led to all of those slave owners. you know, DISOBEDIENCE, what AmericanCatholic.org is infamous for

Pax [/quote]
Well, the church documents right now say that Benedictine Chant should not be the ONLY form of liturgical music, and people are disobeying the church in telling others that it is the only acceptable sacred form of music.

Church documents say to incorporate sacred music of various cultures in a tasteful way. Yes, they said worshipful music of other cultures is sacred too.

So the people going around and saying they are Catholic, and yet slam Vatican II teaching are in disobedience.

Also, many catholics are buzzing and mumbling and cannot wait for Pope John Paul II to die so that their cronies can go in and undo all of the progress he has made.

Same thing. Disobedience.

There is nothing sinful in people wondering how they could incorporate their music in the liturgy in a sacred tasteful way. Let them think about it and discuss it. It isn't hurting anyone. As long as before they do it they run it by those in charge and modify it properly.

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 12 2004, 11:46 AM'] i know that tehre is one balck catholic hurch here in dallas. the gospel choir came to our mas at my university and tore down the house. i am jeoulous of the reverence and acclamations that they get to to expierence and show throughout the Mass...

these churches are predominatly in Lousiana as well. but sadly, most african americans are turned off by the catholic church because there is not a catholic foothold in thier culture...

i mean, i bet there are hardly any black peeps here at phatmass... i might be making a generalization...but where are they? [/quote]
In a small way I represent black people as I am actually mixed. My birth certificate says caucasian, but I have native american and black blood. My 7th grandma was a slave on the Olivier de Vezin plantation and was impregnated by the plantation owner. My family has kept it a secret and are pretty mad at me for saying anything in the open.

My grandfathers birth certificate said black. My mother was almost kicked out of school but they couldn't because according to the percentage of black blood she had, it wasn't enough to kick her out. My mother still cries about it to this day. That is why she asks me not to tell anyone. She still lives in the deep south and we had neighbors in the KKK.

Edited July 12, 2004 by ladybug

[flip]

ok - stop talking about slavery. we all know slavery is bad.

didn't the Church excommunicate someone for saying the world is round?

but let's not talk about that. I saw black girl in Mass today. She was awesome, reading her bible and praying the Rosary. She was the only black person there though... but she was really dope.

I wish there was an Afrikkan Mass here in dallas. too bad they can never have one here cause Liturgical dance is banned in the US...

i now very few black catholics in comparison to white, mexican, or filipino catholics. too bad none of them are on this site. I mean, hip hop was birthed out of the young urban black communites in NY and we have no black kids repppin for Catholic Hip Hop! Im not saying that only black kids should do hip hop... far from it (cause then this lil island boy would not be able to do what i love!) but i do think its interesting that there are no black peeps reppin' here...

Edited July 12, 2004 by flip