Political discourse in (A)merica

[little2add]

Political discourse has turned ugly'er. 

IE: the Canadian prime minister has evoked Nazism and antisemitism hatred, in the U.S. Wokeism has reared its ugly head.  Prejudice, racialism, racism, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, narrowness, apartheid, Jim Crow, segregation rules the day.  The debacle of women's sports being taken over by gender neutral males, in the name of equality...   The definition of feminism/Womanism.  

Last but not least abortion.

Maybe y'all you pink hat waiting, college graduates people should wake up and reassess the path we're (all) on.

 peace

 

 

 

 

[fides' Jack]

I've been thinking exactly the same thing. 

Before society entirely collapses, rhetoric is going to reach an all-time high.  Now you've got [I don't know - parliament members?] in Canada telling Trudeau to his face to apologize.  Next will be insisting that he not be called "The Honourable".  

Once they start calling each other "Evil", directly, in political situations, no possible benefit can be had from public discourse.  Tensions will only escalate.  Either the leaders will back down, or the protestors will, or there will be actual wars in the streets and martial law.

[Nihil Obstat]

2 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I've been thinking exactly the same thing. 

Before society entirely collapses, rhetoric is going to reach an all-time high.  Now you've got [I don't know - parliament members?] in Canada telling Trudeau to his face to apologize.  Next will be insisting that he not be called "The Honourable".  

Once they start calling each other "Evil", directly, in political situations, no possible benefit can be had from public discourse.  Tensions will only escalate.  Either the leaders will back down, or the protestors will, or there will be actual wars in the streets and martial law.

Prime Minister is actually the Right Honourable. Anyway it is a serious breach of etiquette to address an MP by name in the House. You only address the Speaker, and you indirectly refer to someone as "the honourable member from [X]". One would be disciplined if he intentionally flouted House etiquette like that.

But yes, Trudeau's rhetoric lately has been condescending and inflammatory. I expect it will cost him in the medium term. Time will tell. 

[little2add]

 

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Prime Minister is actually the Right Honourable. Anyway it is a serious breach of etiquette to address an MP by name in the House. You only address the Speaker, and you indirectly refer to someone as "the honourable member from [X]". One would be disciplined if he intentionally flouted House etiquette like that.

Hopefully not as badly as protesters in bouncy castles.

2 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

But yes, Trudeau's rhetoric lately has been condescending and inflammatory. I expect it will cost him in the medium term. Time will tell. 

 

[little2add]

please be "Kind"

[KnightofChrist]

39 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Hopefully not as badly as protesters in bouncy castles.

 

[KnightofChrist]

The individual wearing the red coat is reported to be an elderly woman with a walker. 

[Nihil Obstat]

Seems a bit reckless to be in the middle of that if you are elderly and disabled. Nobody was there by mistake. I hope she is not injured.

[KnightofChrist]

37 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Seems a bit reckless to be in the middle of that if you are elderly and disabled. Nobody was there by mistake. I hope she is not injured.

She's on video stating "we are a peaceful protest", just before she was trampled. There are reports she may have died from her injuries. 

I'm guessing she was under the mistaken impression she was in a free country, with rights. Probably never crossed her mind mounted police would crush her. I have yet to see video or photo evidence that these people are violent. The only violence has been from police recorded for all the world to see.

This is a grave act of injustice. You're reply is, not seems, cold. 

[Nihil Obstat]

If she was harmed, that is tragic. 

I do not necessarily think that the protest being broken up by police enforcement is wrong. As Catholics we respect the duties and responsibilities of political authority to make and enforce laws. I am not convinced that this was an unjust exercise of that authority.

[fides' Jack]

20 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

If she was harmed, that is tragic. 

I do not necessarily think that the protest being broken up by police enforcement is wrong. As Catholics we respect the duties and responsibilities of political authority to make and enforce laws. I am not convinced that this was an unjust exercise of that authority.

I agree, except that when the political authority is no longer moral and just, the only moral and just course is to stand against it.

We are clearly beyond the point where the various countries' governments are capable of performing their functions in any sort of right-ordered fashion.  There may still be some morally OK governments in the world.  But it's not the US, and it's not Canada.

I just read that rubber bullets are now being fired at the protestors.  Wow.

[Nihil Obstat]

Do you think you can use Catholic social encyclicals and writings from saints to support the violent overthrow of effectively all western nations?

[fides' Jack]

37 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Do you think you can use Catholic social encyclicals and writings from saints to support the violent overthrow of effectively all western nations?

Not just western nations.  At this point it's almost all nations.  China is a major one.

However, I'm not advocating for violent overthrow of anything.  But history has taught us that there is even a time and place for that. 

I very much admire the Canadians who are locked arm in arm, refusing to submit.  That is certainly part of "standing against it", and they are doing so peacefully.

In all honesty, it might actually be too late for a revolution.  Our chief problem continues to be the sins of the people.  People will get the rulers they deserve, and we deserve the worst of the worst, right now.  We've murdered 2.5 billion people in the last hundred years!  We can't even tell male from female, let alone right from wrong.

So, to answer your question a bit more directly, I don't think violence is the answer right now, except in cases of immediate necessity.  No violent revolution is going to win this war, so it would fail to meet the Church's conditions for a just war.  But standing firm in our faith and firm in our resolutions and refusing to cooperate is called for in spades. 

Of course, that's my opinion, and that can and does change often.  

[KnightofChrist]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:26 PM, Nihil Obstat said:

If she was harmed, that is tragic. 

I do not necessarily think that the protest being broken up by police enforcement is wrong. As Catholics we respect the duties and responsibilities of political authority to make and enforce laws. I am not convinced that this was an unjust exercise of that authority.

She was indeed harmed, but thankfully not killed by the police.

If suspension of civil liberties and due process, and the great ease in which it was done has not convinced you that the authority is acting unjustly, I simply don't know what to say to that. I know you previous stated that it only temporarily targets one specific marginalized group. But how can you trust that will stay true? You cannot, not really. It will or will not expand at the whims of the authority.

A single donation of a few dollars can give the state the 'justification' to freeze/seize someones bank account with no due process. The state can seize and sell the personal property of the protesters and not compensate the individual. The state forced tow truck drivers (forced labor) to tow vehicles. These are unjust actions by the authorities.

Freeland and others are already talking about making some of the Emergency Act permanent, continuing it for months to come. How many days in and they're already talking about make some parts permanent? The actions of the authorities are not proportional to the protests, they are excessive and unjust.