An Ex-Catholic Vents to Gain Closure and Because He's Kind of Bored

[Disgruntled]

        Hello all, I'm on a road trip (don't worry, I'm not the one driving lol) and I've got some heavy baggage with the Catholic Church, so I figured I'd make this account to dump it here. Feel free to respond or not, whatever. Heads up though, there's going to be some stuff here that'll potentially offend Catholic folks. You may ask, "Disgruntled, why are you posting it on a Catholic forum then???" To which I answer, "The Church has done irreparable damage to me, caused me great pain, and I want people of this religion to know it." I come with anger, yes, but not directed at you, the Catholic reader, specifically. More so at the institution, its teachings and those who actively perpetuate it I suppose. Anyways enough prologue, let's get into "the tea" as kids these days would say.

An Outline:

1) My Story

2) Various Quotations

 

Section 1: My Story

        I was a cafeteria Catholic for much of my life. Grew up going to church on Sundays but never really gave much thought to it. Years later I realize I'm qwerty and transgender. Cut to a crisis where for whatever reason I decide to suppress it with religion. This leads to me developing severe scrupulosity, later diagnosed as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, for which I am still medicated. I took a deep dive into traditional Catholicism (which I only realize after leaving was a legitimate cult). I wanted to be a religious. I tried to dedicate every single part of my life to a deity I thought loved me. I held every conservative opinion you could imagine. I railed against "the homosexual agenda" with passion and was willing to defend the Church to my dying breath. I was a borderline mystic for crying out loud. Then one day, about two years later, I have another crisis over mortal sin. I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't handle the idea of hell and eternal damnation and the inherently abusive doctrine of original sin anymore. I sobbed for a good two hours when I realized I couldn't be part of this Church anymore. The next few weeks I was engulfed with anger as I discovered an entire community of individuals who got screwed over by this institution like I had been. Let's read some of what they have to say.

Section 2: Various Quotations

"catholicism as an institution beats the lesson of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" into the heads of children from before they're old enough to comprehend it

I was a little kid going to a daycare run by Carmelite nuns, and we were taught how to pray using words none of us could understand. They had us repeat the prayers over and over again, and if we made mistakes because we were four and using words like temptation and wickedness and of course we were saying them wrong, we had to keep saying the line until we got it right. But if one of us didn't want to pray (because we were four and four-year-olds are easily distracted and don't want to spend ten minutes stumbling over the word trespasses while a nun gives them the stink-eye), we were essentially told that we were insulting God. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I got a little older and went to that daycare until I was twelve, and for that entire time, I saw the same thing over and over again: kids who were punished for either eating too much, or not eating enough. If you only ate half your plate, you were told that you were ungrateful, because children in Africa were starving, and one day when you went to preach the word of the Lord to them, you'd understand. If you were still hungry after three or four servings, you were taught the definition of gluttony and told to leave food for the other kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Catholic school religion class is its own beast, but something I was told by my religion teacher always stuck out to me as a prime example of this: the definition of a mortal sin, as defined by the church, is a willing, grave act that defies God. By this definition, apostasy is the ultimate mortal sin, because it involves essentially giving God the finger by depriving him of your worship. And the undercurrent throughout the whole course was that the way to achieve true happiness and real fulfillment was to act in line with God's will (as defined by priests because the Magisterium means the church is always right, except when it isn't). So when I asked how your average Catholic is meant to treat the average ex-Catholic, I got this response:

"Just treat them like an ordinary person. Be polite, be respectful. If they engage you on the subject of religion, you can obviously bring up your view, but an apostate is just a person and deserves to be treated with human dignity."

Basically, this man was teaching teenagers that apostates are ultimately unhappy and unfulfilled, because they aren't falling in line with God's will. But you shouldn't say that to them, because that wouldn't be polite.

As an apostate in that class, about a year and a half after I had come to terms with the fact that I can't support or believe in the Catholic Church anymore, I was told that if I said anything about being an ex-Catholic, at least my teacher and a few of my classmates would believe I'm unhappy and unfulfilled and that I committed the ultimate mortal sin. But if I didn't say anything, I still had the knowledge in my head that the people around me were being taught that I have done something under the same label as murder.

Finally admitting to myself that the institution that raised me (that the people who took care of me and taught me how to write, read, behave, grow, express myself, live) had actively been harming me was not [swear word omitted] easy. I spent so long ignoring massive red flags because I was a kid who wanted to be loved, and because God does not love those who do not love him back, I thought pretending would at least give me that. But it was torture if I kept pretending, kept my mouth shut and fell in line, and it would be torture if I admitted it.

I was damned if I did, and damned if I didn't.

And [swear word omitted], if it isn't surprising that I have an anxiety disorder after growing up in an institution which told me no matter what I do, it's always the wrong choice."

"I remembering being at adoration in high school, barely coming to terms with the fact that I might maybe possibly be attracted to women, and turning to the catechism for guidance and reading for the first time, the words "disordered thinking". I was 17. I cried. I am 21 and I'm still crying, for my past self, for myself now, and for all the young qwerty kids who are reading that phrase for the first time. It hurts, to know that people who care about you and love you and people who hate you and want you dead both agree that you are intrinsically disordered. There is nothing in the world that can take away that knowledge and that pain."

"They need you to believe the world is an evil, dangerous place, so you fall into their lies that they are the only ones able to protect you. That way you end up in a vulnerable, dependent position with respect to them, and thay are able to take advantage of you.

Dont let anybody convince you that they are the only ones able to protect you. That you need them.Thats abuse(religious abuse, if done in the basis of religion). If they do so, most probable they are making up imaginary dangers to catch you."

"I just remembered that there was a time of my life in college that I was convinced I was created to be a "suffering soul." I really thought my entire purpose in life was to suffer for God.

It's honestly really sad, but the Catholic Church breeds that kind of mentality.

Read some stories of the Saints. The underlying message is: You are worthless. You are pitiful. You have to suffer for God so that he will make you holier. You won't be a good enough unless you embrace suffering.

In reality, I wonder how many Saints struggled with Mental Health problems that could have been helped today."

"“everyone deserves hell” wow thank you for telling me that you view everyone else as an npc in your little game of life. imagine viewing them as whole, feeling people who could never deserve torture for eternity. imagine understanding the full, incomprehensible length of forever and how much torment that would be."

 

[Lilllabettt]

Be safe on your road trip.  In life if you hit a wall, you're scared or just need someone to give a dam try this prayer: "mother Mary, be a mother to me." The Catholic church does not own Mary and she does not care if you're Catholic or not. Say that prayer, and she will be a light for you when all others go out.  

Wear your seat belt and stretch every 2 hrs to prevent blood clots. Enjoy.

[Sponsa-Christi]

@Disgruntled Hi, welcome! I'm not sure if you truly just wanted to vent or if you're actually looking for conversation (or if you're not sure!)

I think a lot of us have had abusive experiences within Catholic institutions. In my own Catholic grade school (in the 1990s!) I remember how public humiliation was basically the go-to punishment for even minor infractions. In third grade, I used to be called up to the front of the class every morning and yelled at in front of everyone. The gist of the dressing-down was basically that I would never amount to anything. (And I was a well-behaved kid with decent grades, so looking back I'm not really sure why I was targeted in this way.) I vaguely recall one time my teacher yelling at my that I was such a terrible kid that I shouldn't be too confident that my own parents loved me. But that seems outrageous even for my school, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of that particular memory. 

In any case, I did have a very vivid prayer life as a young child, and God was very real to me. I sensed that He loved me very much, which didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time because I was one of the "bad kids." But if God was going to seemingly break His own rules and be so "unfair" in my favor, then I was going to roll with it! 

Long story short, this sense of the love of God was what kept me in the Church. I wanted to be close to Him, and I found Him in the sacraments. It helped me keep perspective in terms of what is really Catholicism and what were human distortions. It has not always been easy, though. Childhood emotional abuse leaves extremely deep wounds. But it is still possible to find home with God in the Church, if that's what you think you might be in some way looking for. 

2 hours ago, Disgruntled said:

Read some stories of the Saints. The underlying message is: You are worthless. You are pitiful. You have to suffer for God so that he will make you holier. You won't be a good enough unless you embrace suffering.

Yeah, a lot of saint biographies are...not particularly encouraging or nuanced. But I look at the suffering bit not as: "God wants you to suffer" as much as "God can use the suffering that happens in a meaningful way to help you grow as a person." This isn't even a uniquely Catholic insight. This is basically the non-Catholic psychiatrist Viktor Frankl's thesis in his classic book "Man's Search for Meaning" (which is an excellent read, by the way, for anyone who is suffering.) 

[Anomaly]

@Disgruntled  

I too am an ex-Catholic.   I, and my family, are cradle Catholics and were/are very involved in the Church.   I know half a dozen people who became priests, some since childhood.   Myself and family and close friends have taught classes, served in councils, headed ministries, or are volunteers.   I’ve personally seen it all, from disputable behaviors, cover ups, theft, nastiness, unfettered ego, to down right unearthly kindness and loving patience. 

Catholicism, like all religions and life philosophies, is imperfect in the way it’s interpreted, applied, and put into real action.    You will find what you look for, and come across the worst and best if you spend any significant time at it.

I empathize with the horrible experiences you experienced, many of which I’ve lived too.   But it is significant that you recognize when it’s wrong.   I would say that although practiced nastiness is evident in all religions, there is much more kindness and sincere effort to be kind and loving.   Don’t be too willing to pass on the good you’ve seen and always strive to not carry the poison of others wickedness towards you, it then just contaminates you and those you love.

I wish you well.  

 

[Dennis Tate]

8 hours ago, Disgruntled said:

        Hello all, I'm on a road trip (don't worry, I'm not the one driving lol) and I've got some heavy baggage with the Catholic Church, so I figured I'd make this account to dump it here. Feel free to respond or not, whatever. Heads up though, there's going to be some stuff here that'll potentially offend Catholic folks. You may ask, "Disgruntled, why are you posting it on a Catholic forum then???" To which I answer, "The Church has done irreparable damage to me, caused me great pain, and I want people of this religion to know it." I come with anger, yes, but not directed at you, the Catholic reader, specifically. More so at the institution, its teachings and those who actively perpetuate it I suppose. Anyways enough prologue, let's get into "the tea" as kids these days would say.

An Outline:

1) My Story

2) Various Quotations

 

Section 1: My Story

        I was a cafeteria Catholic for much of my life. Grew up going to church on Sundays but never really gave much thought to it. Years later I realize I'm qwerty and transgender. Cut to a crisis where for whatever reason I decide to suppress it with religion. This leads to me developing severe scrupulosity, later diagnosed as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, for which I am still medicated. I took a deep dive into traditional Catholicism (which I only realize after leaving was a legitimate cult). I wanted to be a religious. I tried to dedicate every single part of my life to a deity I thought loved me. I held every conservative opinion you could imagine. I railed against "the homosexual agenda" with passion and was willing to defend the Church to my dying breath. I was a borderline mystic for crying out loud. Then one day, about two years later, I have another crisis over mortal sin. I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't handle the idea of hell and eternal damnation and the inherently abusive doctrine of original sin anymore. I sobbed for a good two hours when I realized I couldn't be part of this Church anymore. The next few weeks I was engulfed with anger as I discovered an entire community of individuals who got screwed over by this institution like I had been. Let's read some of what they have to say.

Section 2: Various Quotations

"catholicism as an institution beats the lesson of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" into the heads of children from before they're old enough to comprehend it

I was a little kid going to a daycare run by Carmelite nuns, and we were taught how to pray using words none of us could understand. They had us repeat the prayers over and over again, and if we made mistakes because we were four and using words like temptation and wickedness and of course we were saying them wrong, we had to keep saying the line until we got it right. But if one of us didn't want to pray (because we were four and four-year-olds are easily distracted and don't want to spend ten minutes stumbling over the word trespasses while a nun gives them the stink-eye), we were essentially told that we were insulting God. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I got a little older and went to that daycare until I was twelve, and for that entire time, I saw the same thing over and over again: kids who were punished for either eating too much, or not eating enough. If you only ate half your plate, you were told that you were ungrateful, because children in Africa were starving, and one day when you went to preach the word of the Lord to them, you'd understand. If you were still hungry after three or four servings, you were taught the definition of gluttony and told to leave food for the other kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Catholic school religion class is its own beast, but something I was told by my religion teacher always stuck out to me as a prime example of this: the definition of a mortal sin, as defined by the church, is a willing, grave act that defies God. By this definition, apostasy is the ultimate mortal sin, because it involves essentially giving God the finger by depriving him of your worship. And the undercurrent throughout the whole course was that the way to achieve true happiness and real fulfillment was to act in line with God's will (as defined by priests because the Magisterium means the church is always right, except when it isn't). So when I asked how your average Catholic is meant to treat the average ex-Catholic, I got this response:

"Just treat them like an ordinary person. Be polite, be respectful. If they engage you on the subject of religion, you can obviously bring up your view, but an apostate is just a person and deserves to be treated with human dignity."

Basically, this man was teaching teenagers that apostates are ultimately unhappy and unfulfilled, because they aren't falling in line with God's will. But you shouldn't say that to them, because that wouldn't be polite.

As an apostate in that class, about a year and a half after I had come to terms with the fact that I can't support or believe in the Catholic Church anymore, I was told that if I said anything about being an ex-Catholic, at least my teacher and a few of my classmates would believe I'm unhappy and unfulfilled and that I committed the ultimate mortal sin. But if I didn't say anything, I still had the knowledge in my head that the people around me were being taught that I have done something under the same label as murder.

Finally admitting to myself that the institution that raised me (that the people who took care of me and taught me how to write, read, behave, grow, express myself, live) had actively been harming me was not [swear word omitted] easy. I spent so long ignoring massive red flags because I was a kid who wanted to be loved, and because God does not love those who do not love him back, I thought pretending would at least give me that. But it was torture if I kept pretending, kept my mouth shut and fell in line, and it would be torture if I admitted it.

I was damned if I did, and damned if I didn't.

And [swear word omitted], if it isn't surprising that I have an anxiety disorder after growing up in an institution which told me no matter what I do, it's always the wrong choice."

"I remembering being at adoration in high school, barely coming to terms with the fact that I might maybe possibly be attracted to women, and turning to the catechism for guidance and reading for the first time, the words "disordered thinking". I was 17. I cried. I am 21 and I'm still crying, for my past self, for myself now, and for all the young qwerty kids who are reading that phrase for the first time. It hurts, to know that people who care about you and love you and people who hate you and want you dead both agree that you are intrinsically disordered. There is nothing in the world that can take away that knowledge and that pain."

"They need you to believe the world is an evil, dangerous place, so you fall into their lies that they are the only ones able to protect you. That way you end up in a vulnerable, dependent position with respect to them, and thay are able to take advantage of you.

Dont let anybody convince you that they are the only ones able to protect you. That you need them.Thats abuse(religious abuse, if done in the basis of religion). If they do so, most probable they are making up imaginary dangers to catch you."

"I just remembered that there was a time of my life in college that I was convinced I was created to be a "suffering soul." I really thought my entire purpose in life was to suffer for God.

It's honestly really sad, but the Catholic Church breeds that kind of mentality.

Read some stories of the Saints. The underlying message is: You are worthless. You are pitiful. You have to suffer for God so that he will make you holier. You won't be a good enough unless you embrace suffering.

In reality, I wonder how many Saints struggled with Mental Health problems that could have been helped today."

"“everyone deserves hell” wow thank you for telling me that you view everyone else as an npc in your little game of life. imagine viewing them as whole, feeling people who could never deserve torture for eternity. imagine understanding the full, incomprehensible length of forever and how much torment that would be."

 

Before I even read what you wrote I want to say that I am an ex-member of the Worldwide Church of God.  Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong got me out of Atheism into studying the Bible beginning around 1972 when I was thirteen...... and I personally try my best to concentrate on the positive in my old church so that I am generally thankful for what I learned there...........

and........ one of the big things that I learned is that my old church took me close to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit........ when we WWCG members began to feel that we were the only Christians (or at least we were the ones with the lions share of the Holy Spirit)........

 

....  Each denomination of Christianity is flawed... in unique ways.....  and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is teaching us huge lessons even from the problems that our church had.  Once I began to read near death experience accounts I could no longer fit in with a church that taught Soul Sleep....... which is one of the reasons as to why I began to investigate Roman Catholicism..... because those NDE accounts do remind me of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory!

I am of the believe that those NDE accounts will play a massive role in an awakening that will lead to one billion young people soon being on fire for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in a way that will cross all denominations of Christianity.  

 

[Credo in Deum]

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.“—Arch Bishop Fulton Sheen

 

As a revert to the Catholic Faith I had a long period of time where I held similar opinions agains the Catholic Church.  I went headlong into secularism.  I used to hate the expressions of the Saints about being nothing, worms, etc and I actually hated a lot about the Catholic Faith, or what I thought it was based on other Catholics examples and my own limited and fallible interpretation of what I read.

A lot of this changed when I became aware of the different levels of prayer in the spiritual life.  One of the biggest issues I found was that when I read the saints I was reading them out of context and it wasn’t until I improved my prayer life ( I’m still on the first of nine levels, yes, nine) was I able to better understand the context of the saints.  It’s still a work in progress but it’s slowly progressing, and as it does it makes me realize even more that the majority of Catholics have been robbed of good teachers and practitioners of the Faith.  
 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Credo in Deum

[Norseman82]

22 hours ago, Disgruntled said:

  Hello all, I'm on a road trip (don't worry, I'm not the one driving lol) and I've got some heavy baggage with the Catholic Church...

Where are you planning on going after you leave?