The "Bride" making first vows

[GraceUk]

Thanks very much. Some lovely brides.  I knew it was a few years ago but didnt realise it was ten years ago. How time flies.   

[sr.christinaosf]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:58 AM, Dymphna said:

But in the communities I know, the first vows are not seen as "we'll try it out for some years". They are seen as "permanent with the option of an escape route". When someone thinks about first vows, and also when community members think about whether someone should be accepted for first vows, they are encouraged not to think "can I / do I want to live this life / live with this person for the next three years?" ...

This is kind of along the lines I was thinking.  When making first vows, the attitude wasn't "We'll see if this works."  Mine, personally, was that I wished I could make final vows right away, but this is what the church and the community required, so that's what we do.  Taking temporary vows makes it possible (ecclesially) to end (or not renew) the arrangement if it doesn't work out.

[GraceUk]

 In a way I don't see the point of temporary vows. Say if they were for three years could a person still leave in the middle of it. But I expect some sort of official dispensation would be required.  Rather than saying ok you can leave this afternoon.  

[rosamundi]

35 minutes ago, GraceUk said:

 In a way I don't see the point of temporary vows. Say if they were for three years could a person still leave in the middle of it. But I expect some sort of official dispensation would be required.  Rather than saying ok you can leave this afternoon.  

I was in final promises as a Lay Dominican and left. If I had been in temporary promises it would have just required the approval of the Fraternity I was in, but because I was in final promises I had to have approval from the overall Fraternity Council (which governs all the Fraternities in the UK).

I was told the process is similar for someone in vows, that at the temporary stage leaving is a matter between the Community and the member, and at the final stage leaving requires the wider Order's input, and depending on the nature of the vows, the Vatican in some capacity as well.

[truthfinder]

4 hours ago, GraceUk said:

 In a way I don't see the point of temporary vows. Say if they were for three years could a person still leave in the middle of it. But I expect some sort of official dispensation would be required.  Rather than saying ok you can leave this afternoon.  

In the long scheme of things, temporary vows are a recent invention.  They really only come about with the pio-Benedictine code of canon law. 

[Nunsuch]

7 hours ago, GraceUk said:

 In a way I don't see the point of temporary vows. Say if they were for three years could a person still leave in the middle of it. But I expect some sort of official dispensation would be required.  Rather than saying ok you can leave this afternoon.  

Temporary vows ARE for a fixed period, and one does need a dispensation if one leaves before that period is over. There is *never* a time when one can "leave this afternoon," not when one is in vows. 

[Dymphna]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:42 PM, GraceUk said:

 In a way I don't see the point of temporary vows. Say if they were for three years could a person still leave in the middle of it. But I expect some sort of official dispensation would be required.  Rather than saying ok you can leave this afternoon.  

That (leaving "in the middle of it") is really not the point of temporary vows. The point is, that after three years (in your example) the sister/brother can leave without any official process. They simply can decide not to ask for admission to permanent vows. They don't need to give reasons for it and they don't need dispensation. This can be helpful if someone feels that they are not at the right place, but shys back from starting official procedures, which e.g. can bring strong impressions of failure.

Personally, I would actually be in favour of an opportunity to stay in temporary vows forever, maybe with a yearly reneval date, as was customary in active women's orders (for completely different reasons). Not for everybody, but for women who prefer this form.

[gloriana35]

As far as I know, those in temporary vows indeed can extend this period. It is not an obligation to make final vows as soon as one is eligible. Most religious I knew made annual vows (not three years) until final profession. As a rule, the period of formation is longer than it was years ago. 

[Nunsuch]

1 hour ago, gloriana35 said:

As far as I know, those in temporary vows indeed can extend this period. It is not an obligation to make final vows as soon as one is eligible. Most religious I knew made annual vows (not three years) until final profession. As a rule, the period of formation is longer than it was years ago. 

This very much depends on the community (the length of first vows--annually or not, etc.). Canon law permits up to 9 years in temporary vows. This may be up to the candidate, the community, or mutual discernment.

[Isabella]

Don't the Daughters of Charity have annual vows that the whole community takes on the same day instead of final profession?

[gloriana35]

 

15 minutes ago, Isabella said:

Don't the Daughters of Charity have annual vows that the whole community takes on the same day instead of final profession?

Yes - but that is connected to the circumstances of their foundation (I believe that was discussed on another thread.)  There are various communities which were not established as religious Institutes, largely because that would have meant being cloistered. (The Religious Teachers Fillipini, very highly regarded in Italy, are not a religious Institute. They don't make vows in the strict sense, but a 'final oblation.') 

Incidentally - on another note - when I said, earlier, that, as far as I know, those in communities which profess final vows are not obligated to make vows as soon as they are eligible, I didn't mean they could continue temporary vows life-long. The only communities wherein one never makes final vows are those, such as the Daughters, where annual, private vows are their overall custom.