Final Solution for 'AntiVaxxers'?

[rachael]

No, they did not admit that. But nice try.

[KnightofChrist]

Just now, rachael said:

We answered. They aren't cast from society. They are just facing the consequences of their own actions. 

No, you didn't. I understand you don't want to give a straight answer. You never answered the question as asked. You don't want to, you're not going to. So I'll stop trying to ask you. It's pointless.

If the mandates are implemented I'll lose my job. Not because I'm unvaccinated but because my job will not be able to operate without the unvaccinated employees. Much of the US already suffering from profound labor shortages and supply chain problems. This will only make matters worse for everyone. 

1 minute ago, rachael said:

No, they did not admit that. But nice try.

He stated the unvaccinated will be able to re-enter society when they become vaccinated. To re-enter society means they were at first casted out of it.

[rachael]

31 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

No, you didn't. I understand you don't want to give a straight answer. You never answered the question as asked. You don't want to, you're not going to. So I'll stop trying to ask you. It's pointless.

If the mandates are implemented I'll lose my job. Not because I'm unvaccinated but because my job will not be able to operate without the unvaccinated employees. Much of the US already suffering from profound labor shortages and supply chain problems. This will only make matters worse for everyone. 

He stated the unvaccinated will be able to re-enter society when they become vaccinated. To re-enter society means they were at first casted out of it.

You're going to lose your job because of your own actions. No one forced you to deny a vaccine. 

[KnightofChrist]

16 minutes ago, rachael said:

You're going to lose your job because of your own actions. No one forced you to deny a vaccine. 

I'm fully vaccinated, (as it's defined currently anyway), I've stated this before in this thread, I believe repeatedly. I wont lose my job because I'm unvaccinated, I'll lose it because the company will not be able to operate without the unvaccinated employees.

Companies will have to pay the $14k per violation or have unvaccinated employees take tests every week. Both are unrealistic. Companies can't avoid the fines, companies can't afford to have a large percentage of employees out for 2-3 days a week waiting on results. This is just the reality of the mandates. Which will be true for many American companies. 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by KnightofChrist

[rachael]

It is pretty realistic, and companies can avoid fines...

[rosamundi]

53 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

companies can't afford to have a large percentage of employees out for 2-3 days a week waiting on results.

 

Do you not have lateral flow tests? You do them at home and results come back in about half an hour.

if it's positive, you have to do a PCR, and they take 24-48 hours.

[KnightofChrist]

26 minutes ago, rosamundi said:

Do you not have lateral flow tests? You do them at home and results come back in about half an hour.

if it's positive, you have to do a PCR, and they take 24-48 hours.

Yes, but even now the supply for those run out faster than other tests. If a quarter or half the population is required to take the tests every week what will that do to the available supply? 

[rachael]

1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

I'm fully vaccinated, (as it's defined currently anyway), I've stated this before in this thread, I believe repeatedly. I wont lose my job because I'm unvaccinated, I'll lose it because the company will not be able to operate without the unvaccinated employees.

Companies will have to pay the $14k per violation or have unvaccinated employees take tests every week. Both are unrealistic. Companies can't avoid the fines, companies can't afford to have a large percentage of employees out for 2-3 days a week waiting on results. This is just the reality of the mandates. Which will be true for many American companies. 

 

No, the companies can find plenty of vaccinated employees who are willing to work. The unvaccinated received plenty of warning.

[KnightofChrist]

2 minutes ago, rachael said:

No, the companies can find plenty of vaccinated employees who are willing to work. The unvaccinated received plenty of warning.

Many can barely find enough people now, vaccinated or not. 

[rachael]

1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

Many can barely find enough people now, vaccinated or not. 

How is the pay? Benefits? 

[KnightofChrist]

29 minutes ago, rachael said:

How is the pay? Benefits? 

Greater pay and better benefits would help. No doubt. Lack of pay and benefits is definitely a factor in the labor sortage, especially for skilled labor.

However, it's the lack of people to fill the jobs that's the greatest problem.

The labor shortage crisis, existed well before COVID and is caused by many factors, an larger ageing population being replaced by a smaller younger population for example. The crisis multiplied due to the previous shutdowns, and will be further exacerbated by casting out a large percentage of the population from the labor force. 

If all efforts to convince and coerce the unvaccinated to get vaccinated mostly fail. If it is 20-40% of the population and they are thrown out of the labor force, forbidden to enter the public, it will negatively effect us all. 

At the end of the day they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not on board with forcing them to take the vaccine against their will. I'm not on board with taking away their livelihoods. Which will lead to depriving them of their homes, and ability to feed and cloth themselves. The mandates are unchristian, insane and hypocritically selfish. 

[rachael]

29 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

However, it's the lack of people to fill the jobs that's the greatest problem.

No, it's not. Not in the way you're probably thinking of it.

There's certainly

1) not a lack of people

2) skills are being mismatched between employers and employees

3) employees have higher expectations - we don't want to be paid $15 for a $20/hr job anymore 

4) many people are leaving those previously filled jobs

5) hiring is awful/terrible/horrible...

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-labor-shortage-mismatches-between-workers-employers-pay-location-fit-2021-9

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-youre-having-trouble-finding-job-employees-labor-shortage-economists-2021-9?op=1

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/talent-acquisition/pages/labor-shortages-the-disconnect-solutions-unemployment-benefits-childcare-covid-fear.aspx

As a personal anecdote - I've interviewed for about 30+ jobs in the past year in my field. I had one particular one that I interviewed for that offered me a salary of $15/hr...which is way less than half of what I make now in one of the highest cost of living areas of the country. Yet this was deemed to be a higher position. I laughed, declined, and hung up the call. I keep getting contacted by recruiters for similar offers. Just...no. 

29 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

At the end of the day they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not on board with forcing them to take the vaccine against their will. I'm not on board with taking away their livelihoods. Which will lead to depriving them of their homes, and ability to feed and cloth themselves. The mandates are unchristian, insane and hypocritically selfish. 

No, they don't have to take it against their will. It is still their choice. Potentially sickening others to claim you have your freedoms is selfish. Remember how you had to be vaccinated for school? Did you forget that?

Edited November 17, 2021 by rachael

[Peace]

25 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

The mandates are unchristian, insane and hypocritically selfish. 

Well in that case let’s just let all of our children skip the polio and MMR vaccines and head to school, mandates being unchristian and selfish as they are.

The stupidity continues.

[rachael]

9 minutes ago, Peace said:

Well in that case let’s just let all of our children skip the polio and MMR vaccines and head to school, mandates being unchristian and selfish as they are.

The stupidity continues.

I wish they had chicken pox vaccine when I was little. Geez, that one was annoying.

Edited November 17, 2021 by rachael

[Anomaly]

28 minutes ago, rachael said:

No, it's not. Not in the way you're probably thinking of it.

There's certainly

1) not a lack of people

2) skills are being mismatched between employers and employees

3) employees have higher expectations - we don't want to be paid $15 for a $20/hr job anymore 

4) many people are leaving those previously filled jobs

5) hiring is awful/terrible/horrible...

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-labor-shortage-mismatches-between-workers-employers-pay-location-fit-2021-9

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-youre-having-trouble-finding-job-employees-labor-shortage-economists-2021-9?op=1

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/talent-acquisition/pages/labor-shortages-the-disconnect-solutions-unemployment-benefits-childcare-covid-fear.aspx

As a personal anecdote - I've interviewed for about 30+ jobs in the past year in my field. I had one particular one that I interviewed for that offered me a salary of $15/hr...which is way less than half of what I make now in one of the highest cost of living areas of the country. Yet this was deemed to be a higher position. I laughed, declined, and hung up the call. I keep getting contacted by recruiters for similar offers. Just...no. 

No, they don't have to take it against their will. It is still their choice. Potentially sickening others to claim you have your freedoms is selfish. Remember how you had to be vaccinated for school? Did you forget that?

I am a manager.   I’ve been hiring people for years.   There is a definite lack of work ethic and it is very hard to find employees.   
We can train you if you can learn.  Five years and you can be making 55 to 70k a year.    Don’t even need a high school diploma.    

It’s unimaginable the losers who can’t be dependable, make an effort to do “okay”, be positive, be willing to learn.  
 

The mandate is wrong, but it’s sad that stupidity is so entrenched, that it seems like it’s a good idea.   I have employees who aren’t vaccinated.  Almost all give one of these two reasons:

1- The government is not going to tell me what to do. 

2- I’ve been too busy.