Discerning without parents' support

[FutureMoniale]

+JMJ+

 

I've had an account here for ages, but I've never summoned the courage to actually post! This feels like a perhaps gloomy topic to post about, but I'm very much in need of prayers and I thought of asking for them here. 

 

I've been discerning on and off for a while now, but discernment has been made complicated by a couple of factors, notably by the fact that my parents are not Catholic, but Lutheran. Over the last year or so, my discernment has gotten a lot more serious. I have been speaking with my spiritual director about my vocation and how the whole process is going, and we decided together that my next big step should be visiting my Community. I have exchanged several letters with the Prioress, since they are a traditional community with no online presence or phone number, and she has expressed an interest in me visiting them when possible. The issue is, I'm a student and my community is across an ocean, in Europe. My spiritual director seems to feel that I have a vocation, or at least that I show enough promise that he'd be willing to ask the parish to help me financially with travel expenses, etc. He is really encouraging and suggested I visit them on my next break, but it turns out that the earliest possible time would be next June, after the winter semester. In theory, I would be eligible to enter with them starting next October and, since it feels like everything is picking up all at once, I decided I should speak to my parents about all of this, since I still live with them. 

 

Our discussion did not end terribly well, not because they were angry, but I could feel their sadness in the air. I am quite young and I understand why they want to protect me and keep me close, but it is so painful to see this disconnect between us. I am very close to both of my parents and I wish I could make it easier for them. They want me to finish college before I even consider entering anywhere, but that is 3 years away, so I told them I couldn't promise waiting that long. Then they asked me to find a monastery in our own country, but there are few cloistered monasteries here to begin with, much less any that I feel called to (and yes, I have written to many, if not all, cloistered communities that I know of here). They asked for a compromise, like waiting until after Christmas 2022 to enter so that we have one last Christmas all together (for reasons beyond our control, we will be separated this Christmas) and, while I promised to think about it, I couldn't commit totally to it. Since they are not Catholic, any mention of extra graces from God just frustrates them; in their minds, my vocation will only be a loss to them. They want me to be happy, but they cannot understand and therefore they don't want me to make this big of a decision yet. They think I need to go into the world, study, travel, maybe even date, before committing to a monastery.

 

I'm totally lost. I have nothing to hold onto but my Beloved. I have found a Community that I love and that is very open to the idea of me entering with them when the time comes, I have prayed so many novenas and had so many prayers answered, my spiritual director is very optimistic, and I feel like I have finally found my peace and my place in the world. All my life, I've been restless, and it is only within the cloister that I can imagine spending the rest of my time on Earth. My joy is in God alone, and it is in dying to myself to save souls. I know that my home is only in Jesus and that this world holds nothing for me. I will not enter tomorrow, I still have an entire year to discern at minimum, and I wish so desperately that somehow my parents would be remotely open to my discernment. Ultimately, as an adult, I can make my own decisions, and if it comes down to it, I will leave everything behind to follow Him, but I really do hope that I can preserve my relationship with my family if I do enter, God willing. 

 

I only beg for your charitable prayers, that my parents might begin to understand and, most of all, that God may grant me the strength and patience to weather this trial. If you have any advice, I will happily hear it, for there is nowhere to go but up at this point. I bear this only for Him, my Beloved. This process feels more and more lonely as I advance and I am coming to realize that I can no longer clutch onto anything but Him. +

[Bonkira]

It is good to keep moving forward, but it is also good to listen to the voices of those around you...often we talk about our parents being the first reflection of God's will for us, and a good way to practice obedience now.

I also like to bring a bit of balance: you are interested in a community and they are interested in you visiting, and that is where you are. It's disingenuous to yourself and your discernment to add ownership to the mix...you have not yet set foot inside or even met them yet. While they may be interested in vocations, no community will be planning on you entering without at least some cursory work together and even more so for a cloistered order. 

And...setting your eyes on an international order as your first and only option is difficult in today's world, as immigration and visas are not cheap and most orders cannot pay for that. Your parents are not out of line asking for you to consider an order in the country you live in. As it seems you have not been interested in visiting what cloistered communities your country has, I would engage in that now as a way to communicate to your parents that you are considerate of their feelings. God leads in many mysterious ways, and many have found their homes in exactly that manner. 

Go for retreats and face to face meetings if possible and learn how each embraces the cloister. You may find God there, versus an order in Europe or God may lead you into an apostolic life or he may continue to place the order you are interested in at the center...but engaging is how you allow God to move within you and your life.

Adding that if your eyes are currently set on the order in your icon, your discernment needs to be thorough and well fleshed out before you even visit. They are not shy about turning those away who they do not feel have a vocation to their monastery specifically, and have done it in initial visits during initial conversations without even entertaining a period of postulancy. It is a specific vocation to live as they live, and they are not an order that feels a responsibility to allow too many to try it out if they do not feel it will be fruitful. 

[Sponsa-Christi]

Ultimately, you following God's will for your life will be for your good and everyone else's--including your parents'. Also, most parents come around when they see their children happy in their vocation. (My parents at first weren't too thrilled about my discernment, but when the time came for my actual consecration they were almost embarrassingly supportive and happy for me!)

That being said, as I think you already sense, this is a big shock for your parents, so you probably need to be patient and give them the emotional "space" they need to process this news.

Also, provided that you're not incurring student loans that would be challenging to pay back quickly, I don't think that finishing college is a bad idea. I think it is possible to "lose" a vocation if you did something like put it on the back burner for ten years while you drifted through life aimlessly; but I don't think it's likely for someone your age with a genuine vocation to lose a vocation in the relatively short and focused time it takes to finish an undergrad degree.

Nobody likes to think about it during the "falling in love" phase of discernment, but built into the formation process is the possibility that you may discern out of the community. And you need to feel perfectly free to discern out, and to only stay on until final vows because you are happy in the community and you feel it's where God is continuing to call you--and not because you feel you "have to" stay, or because you couldn't imagine what you would do with your life if you left. Having a degree to fall back on is helpful for discernment in that respect. But even if (God willing!) you do persevere in whatever community you enter, finishing a degree will give you a sense of confidence, self-discipline, and personal maturity that will be a very helpful "dowry" to bring to religious life. 

And, even if you do wind up entering the community you're hoping to visit, PLEASE do check out at least one or two others, even if it's just a quick weekend visit. I think it makes for a healthier discernment when you have a slightly broader first-hand impression of how religious/consecrated life is lived in the Church today.

[Sponsa-Christi]

One more thought...it's actually rather impressive to me that non-Catholic parents are as relatively ok with the idea of discernment as yours seem to be from your description here (in terms of not being angry, proposing not unreasonable compromises, etc.) Sometimes God does call us to dramatic sacrifices and radical breaks with family and homeland; but I think just as if not more often He calls us to follow Him while being as kind and gentle as possible to those who love us and who may be on their own journey of conversation. So honestly, if I were in your shoes I would try very hard to have at least that last Christmas together--it would probably be better for your parents' own spiritual development if they could come to see your vocation as a bittersweet but beautiful journey grounded in love; as opposed to a dynamic where God asked you to suddenly forsake your own parents as though they were merely a worldly distraction.

[GraceUk]

I think you should make a retreat with a community nearer to home. Quite a few orders do those discernment/retreat weekends in a general way and not just aimed at people who are interested in their particular community. 

If you haven't even visited this community and they have no website the chances are it might not be what you are expecting. Also moving countries is a very big deal as regards visas, immigration rules and so on. 

 

[FutureMoniale]

I actually am already a European (German) citizen, my parents are immigrants and the plan was always for me to go back there after college so that I can go to university and move there. That is one of the reasons why I looked at orders there, because even if I discern out, practically all of my family is in France or Germany and it would not be hard for me to continue studying or working, whereas I do not want to spend a life in my country here, especially once my parents retire and I do not depend on them anymore. Their main concern is me being far away, not finances or immigration, which is still valid but much more easily dealt with than bureaucracy. 

 

I also have visited cloistered communities here, as much as possible, and I have gone on retreats (some discernment, some silent). I am very much open to wherever God calls me, even if it's to an order that I may find less interesting or "exotic". I am in touch with several communities here, mostly in friendly sisterly correspondence and not serious discernment, since many of the Sisters are praying for me and write to me when they can. Of course, with the current situation, it is hard to visit further than the monasteries right nearby, but I do my best to participate in virtual retreats and be active. 

 

The issue with school is that, yes, I will likely incur some debt by studying, and also that it is a dangerous environment spiritually. My faith is seen as a bad thing by many people and I have had to hide it or even compromise it in order to pass certain classes. I have spoken about this with my spiritual director and he is definitely helping me out, but, ultimately, I am very unhappy and I cannot imagine continuing for another 3 years in this environment. Of course, I understand that there is a chance of leaving the monastery after entering, and I would never want to be rash and just abandon all my life's plans and savings on a whim, but I also have a very good support system in place and I feel comfortable with the idea of returning to study if I need to leave, especially since university would be free in Germany. 

 

I am definitely considering what my parents said, too. I am not applying to enter, not even close. I am in discernment, with my spiritual director and the prioress, and I am not going to rush this decision. If we all decide after my visit that I should enter sooner rather than later, then I will follow that. If I am told to try elsewhere or to cease discernment, then that is the will of God and I will follow it. I know I'm young and perhaps I seem rash, but I do not feel like I need to justify where I am in discernment. Ultimately, I am just trying to follow Jesus without fear. 

 

All that to say, I have considered what you mentioned and I think they are all very valid points. I will be praying with them in the coming days and I will bring them up with my spiritual director next week. Thank you so much for praying for me, too, there is nothing I need more than grace and prayer! 

[JHFamily]

It seems to me that you have taken your discernment step by step in a logical and prudent way. Now, you are ready to move forward and need to make some more concrete decisions.

It also seems to me that if you decide to visit, and the community ultimately allows you to apply, then accepts you, that it can be considered that the time is ripe for entering.

But so many have the question of now or later. As for me, finishing college before entering was a serious mistake.  My heart just wasn't in it (studying), and it was a great struggle that took longer because I had done no discernment at all in that direction. I think I would have fared better to enter, discern out, then attend college.  Should some attend college first? Yes, of course. But I think that many of these are not where you are in your own discernment. You are pretty far along that path, and to interrupt it now... well... 

By the way, I do have a daughter that is a religious, and she entered just after high school.  Trust your heart, and look for evidence that it is or is not leading you in the right direction.

 

[Guest]

@FutureMoniale if you're interested, you could message me. I think we have had very similar experiences -- converting young, parental conflict, and a cloistered vocation. I'll be entering Carmel this spring.

[nikita92]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:00 PM, Sponsa-Christi said:

Ultimately, you following God's will for your life will be for your good and everyone else's--including your parents'. Also, most parents come around when they see their children happy in their vocation. (My parents at first weren't too thrilled about my discernment, but when the time came for my actual consecration they were almost embarrassingly supportive and happy for me!)

That being said, as I think you already sense, this is a big shock for your parents, so you probably need to be patient and give them the emotional "space" they need to process this news.

Also, provided that you're not incurring student loans that would be challenging to pay back quickly, I don't think that finishing college is a bad idea. I think it is possible to "lose" a vocation if you did something like put it on the back burner for ten years while you drifted through life aimlessly; but I don't think it's likely for someone your age with a genuine vocation to lose a vocation in the relatively short and focused time it takes to finish an undergrad degree.

Nobody likes to think about it during the "falling in love" phase of discernment, but built into the formation process is the possibility that you may discern out of the community. And you need to feel perfectly free to discern out, and to only stay on until final vows because you are happy in the community and you feel it's where God is continuing to call you--and not because you feel you "have to" stay, or because you couldn't imagine what you would do with your life if you left. Having a degree to fall back on is helpful for discernment in that respect. But even if (God willing!) you do persevere in whatever community you enter, finishing a degree will give you a sense of confidence, self-discipline, and personal maturity that will be a very helpful "dowry" to bring to religious life. 

And, even if you do wind up entering the community you're hoping to visit, PLEASE do check out at least one or two others, even if it's just a quick weekend visit. I think it makes for a healthier discernment when you have a slightly broader first-hand impression of how religious/consecrated life is lived in the Church today.

Maybe I missed something here,..but it is my understanding that FutureMoniale mentioned  "and yes, I have written to many, if not all, cloistered communities that I know of here"

Which to me, signifies that she is feeling a attraction to becoming a "NUN" rather than a "sister"!

So why would she need to get a degree?

"finishing a degree will give you a sense of confidence, self-discipline, and personal maturity  

Also, why would having "that will be a very helpful "dowry" to bring to religious life"

that "dowry" (of sorts) be advantageous for a cloistered nun?    

I could see that, if she were to discern an apostolic life active/contemplative ministry. i.e. teaching, nursing, music, social media etc.

I have to agree with JHFamily's statement-

 "I think I would have fared better to enter, discern out, then attend college"

Her parents want what most other parents want for their children! "They think I need to go into the world, study, travel, maybe even date, before committing to a monastery"

Yet..those common actives aren't necessarily attractive to everyone!

Just like developing a vocation to the religious like! It is not for everyone. 

FutureMoniale- I am sorry i am not much help! 

                          If it is meant to be, it will happen!

                     "Enjoy today, for tomorrow is not promised!"

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by nikita92
added a word

[Sponsa-Christi]

@nikita92 My point wasn't to argue that all cloistered nuns must or absolutely should have a degree, only that a degree--especially in philosophy or one of the liberal arts that teach you to think deeply--is not wasted and can be very helpful.

Aside from the very real prudential concern of having a degree to fall back on if one "discerns out" during initial formation...classically, education wasn't geared towards job preparation, but rather towards forming the mind in general.

Intellectual formation is an important thing for women, especially for women who are called to cloistered life. Study and education can facilitate understanding God and the truths of the faith more deeply, and it introduces an element of discipline that can be helpful for living a life of asceticism as well as for "tempering" one's devotional life to help avoid sentimental excesses. Cloistered nuns also still do need to make important decisions about the life of the community, and a well-formed intellect is more capable of sensible problem-solving. 

Obviously, it's possible to be intellectually well-formed without a college degree, but a set program of study of some sort is generally necessary to avoid things like an deep dive down a rabbit hole of someone's particular interests, without the balance that comes from a general perspective. 

Anyway, of course not everyone can go to college or finish a degree, and individual circumstances need to be taken into account. But I don't think "drop out of college and enter the community ASAP" is necessarily the holiest or most prudent course of action in any given case; and there are good reasons for an aspiring cloistered nun to go to college. 

[Dymphna]

And just to add on the side: There are contemplative, cloistered communties of women (some Benedictine abbeys come to my mind) who have sisters working as theologians, eg. in translation and commentaries of ancient christian texts. In my opinion, that's an occupation just as fitting for an enclosed nun as baking hosts or sewing liturgical vestments. And it certainly requires a good education.

[Isabella]

The Trappistines at Mt. St. Mary's just sent a nun to nursing school and the Benedictines at Regina Laudis are doing the same.  I can't imagine that education is wasted anywhere.

 

[nikita92]

Thank you all for those helpful insights and information!  Maybe this will help FutureMoniale in her discernment!

[gloriana35]

Sponsa Christi made excellent points - and, if no-one minds my saying 'the grass is green,' all of church history shows that many of the greatest theologians, scholars in other disciplines, and noted authors were in monasteries.

[benedictaaugustine]

4 hours ago, gloriana35 said:

Sponsa Christi made excellent points - and, if no-one minds my saying 'the grass is green,' all of church history shows that many of the greatest theologians, scholars in other disciplines, and noted authors were in monasteries.

You’re right howeeeever I do have to point out that for hundreds of years, one of the only ways to a higher education was through the church (ergo why many women opted to join convents to continue their education)

but yes the point still stands, entering a convent/monastery is not the death to an education!