Calhoun's Universe 25 - true or false?

[Didacus]

Anyone familiar with Universe 25 experiment?

https://www.victorpest.com/articles/what-humans-can-learn-from-calhouns-rodent-utopia

I would see direct similarities with this experiment and humans in 'modern' and 'rich' society.

If this is truly applicable to humans, our current course is extinction

Papa called it!  He termed it 'Culture od Death' and boy was he right!

There are many intepretations of the experiment, a quick search on youtube or any other established sote will provide several different takes and explanations.

Quote;

 

Though wildly controversial when first made public, Calhoun's theory has raised concern over the years that the social breakdown of Universe 25 could ultimately serve as a metaphor for the trajectory of the human race.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Didacus

[Winchester]

People in crisis are also capable of atrocity. 

It was once considered wrong to rob your neighbor, but you could get on the highway and rob foreigners or aliens.

[Didacus]

But what is strange about universe 25 is that THERE WAS NO CRISIS.

The mice had everything they needed, space, food, comfort, everything.  Yet they still invariably drive themselses to exctintion.(umiverse 25 is the most famous experiment, the 25th rendition, but in ALL cases the mice drive themselves to extinction).

[Winchester]

It seems that it implies that lack of crisis is dangerous.

Animal instinct probably "knows" there will be a crisis at some point. Animals are zero sum players. Humans can think their way out of that.

[Didacus]

37 minutes ago, Winchester said:

It seems that it implies that lack of crisis is dangerous.

Animal instinct probably "knows" there will be a crisis at some point. Animals are zero sum players. Humans can think their way out of that.

Are you so certain of that?

 

There are many similarities.  Take for instance the behavorial sink.  The mice all gathered in a single area ans jammed themselves there even though there was ample space in alcoves beside them.  The mice seemed to prefer proximity to each other over their own well-being.

In humans, people run to the internet and 'research' awnsers to their anxieties, but their 'research' is actually seeking like minded individuals to cather their anxieties, and don't care for any facts or otherwise.  They value companionship over reality or facts.  That is a counter to the theory that 'we shouldn't worry 'cause humans can think their way out of problems.'.

The point being that even though the capability to think through a problem may be there, humans may choose not to, prefering instead relationships eveb though unhealthy (even detrimental) over any fact or even oportunity that would be beneficial.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Didacus

[KnightofChrist]

3 hours ago, Didacus said:

Anyone familiar with Universe 25 experiment?

https://www.victorpest.com/articles/what-humans-can-learn-from-calhouns-rodent-utopia

I would see direct similarities with this experiment and humans in 'modern' and 'rich' society.

If this is truly applicable to humans, our current course is extinction

Papa called it!  He termed it 'Culture od Death' and boy was he right!

There are many intepretations of the experiment, a quick search on youtube or any other established sote will provide several different takes and explanations.

Quote;

 

Though wildly controversial when first made public, Calhoun's theory has raised concern over the years that the social breakdown of Universe 25 could ultimately serve as a metaphor for the trajectory of the human race.

The mice had all the common/shared shelter, food and water needed, but no individuality, no meaning to life really, whatever meaning a life of a mouse has, nothing else really to do save to eat and drink. 

The cases of the beautiful males and aggressive females does seem similar to current Western Society.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, Didacus said:

Are you so certain of that?

 

There are many similarities.  Take for instance the behavorial sink.  The mice all gathered in a single area ans jammed themselves there even though there was ample space in alcoves beside them.  The mice seemed to prefer proximity to each other over their own well-being.

In humans, people run to the internet and 'research' awnsers to their anxieties, but their 'research' is actually seeking like minded individuals to cather their anxieties, and don't care for any facts or otherwise.  They value companionship over reality or facts.  That is a counter to the theory that 'we shouldn't worry 'cause humans can think their way out of problems.'.

The point being that even though the capability to think through a problem may be there, humans may choose not to, prefering instead relationships eveb though unhealthy (even detrimental) over any fact or even oportunity that would be beneficial.

"Can" and "will" aren't synonyms. And I didn't say not to worry.
 

[Didacus]

21 minutes ago, Winchester said:

"Can" and "will" aren't synonyms. And I didn't say not to worry.
 

Sorry if i misconstrued your intents.  Was not intentional.

[Winchester]

3 minutes ago, Didacus said:

Sorry if i misconstrued your intents.  Was not intentional.

Clear.

I was all ready to go to the mat.

I need to remember this isn't Twitter.

[Didacus]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

Clear.

I was all ready to go to the mat.

I need to remember this isn't Twitter.

Oh.. well if its a boxing match ya want let's have at it ol' chum!

[Winchester]

10 minutes ago, Didacus said:

Oh.. well if its a boxing match ya want let's have at it ol' chum!

At some point, but let's not force it here.

I'm hesitant to see the test as prophetic, although it's tempting. But it is certainly a cautionary tale. I reckon that's close to as you see it.

[chrysostom]

Most of the Bible, particularly I'm thinking of the Old Testament, reminds us how easily human nature can screw up a good thing. Thankfully actual extinction is not in the cards, according to God's promise, which I believe. It doesn't mean a lot of us can't drive ourselves mighty close to the edge. Barring a imminent Second Coming all of us are going to die ahead of the Resurrection, but enough of us will have enough kids to keep it all going.

[Didacus]

I find it interesting that no homosexual behavior is noticeable in the healthy portion of the experiment, that is to say when the population increases and everything seems to be going well.

Once typical male and female roles are altered or left behind is when everything really goes wrong: violence, detachment and ughh.. rape.

Once the mice population stops caring for procreation and basic family unit, everything goes downhill.

Its frightening when seeing what the western world has made of the core family unit.  We have sucg a detachment to the family unit now that terms such as 'birth person' are gaining acceptance... if we follow suit to universe 25, the future is very bleak indeed.

[ArciMoto]

On 9/13/2021 at 10:41 AM, Didacus said:

But what is strange about universe 25 is that THERE WAS NO CRISIS.

The mice had everything they needed, space, food, comfort, everything.  Yet they still invariably drive themselses to exctintion.(umiverse 25 is the most famous experiment, the 25th rendition, but in ALL cases the mice drive themselves to extinction).

mice are not scientifically sentient,... IOW lack the "talents" to grasp the big picture

till recently people for the most part also are not scientifically sentient,... consider the human analog of the mice universe experiment "easter island"

https://www.history.com/topics/south-america/easter-island

at university had a professor spark my interest in climate science because he mentioned to me that humanity is likewise doing a large scale mice universe experiment 

seems so far for the most part people still are not scientifically sentient,... and don't grasp the knock on effects of burning various hydrocarbon fuels like: coal, methane, gas, diesel, etc.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by ArciMoto

[Didacus]

Arci - seems that the majority of what you post circle around global warming...

What would be your thoughts on universe 25 from a social point of view?