Antivax voices being silenced by covid

[hakutaku]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:21 PM, Winchester said:

What is the CFR? It's a question you should be able to answer. Do you not know what a CFR is?

You know that the CFR isn't a once-and-for-all number, right?  It depends on population, location, and time.

So which CFR do you want?  The global CFR for the whole pandemic?  The USA's CFR currently?    China's CFR at the outset of the pandemic?

[Lilllabettt]

33 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

yeah well let's swap anecdote for anecdote. A 30 something year old woman in my community, a teacher, gets the jab, dies of a ****ing stroke the next week. That's when people were assuring me that only 6 deaths have been connected to the vaccine. I wonder if her death was reported on the VAERS. My mom and my sister knew her, shook them up a little. They were both already vaccinated.

Pretty sad. You can tell me it's rare all you want. Maybe it is. But my faith in the system has rapidly disintegrated over the last 18 months. If you think dying from a virus is a stupid way to die, how about dying while trying to protect yourself from a virus? That seems dumb too.
 

I also want people to know I am taking Covid seriously. After putting on 25 lbs during Covid, I've lost about 10 of them. Now just gotta get my lazy arse off the internet!

When I worked fir Americorps in DC in the slums, there was a decrepit old guy. Got his social security check every month. Went down to the gas station and bought scratchers and played the slots until the money was gone. Every month.

No amount of reasoning, logic, statistics or anything could convince him that this was not smart to do.  He would answer everything with: you can't win if you don't play. 

That's how the covid Vax is. I could show how rolling the dice with the virus is riskier than doing so with the shot. And the inevitability that you will get covid at some point. It wouldn't do any good. 

For me a stupid death is one of my greatest fears. I always buckle my seat belt. 

[Winchester]

7 hours ago, hakutaku said:

You know that the CFR isn't a once-and-for-all number, right?  It depends on population, location, and time.

So which CFR do you want?  The global CFR for the whole pandemic?  The USA's CFR currently?    China's CFR at the outset of the pandemic?

Pick one.

Why is this such a problem? Why doesn't it inspire an answer like "Well, in the US it's currently X, but it does increase in Peru to X, but the global is X."? That's how I've responded to it in the past. 
 

[hakutaku]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

Pick one.

Ok!  The early CFR in China was 17%

[Winchester]

9 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Ok!  The early CFR in China was 17%

Why did you choose that one? Is it the lowest?

[Ice_nine]

23 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

When I worked fir Americorps in DC in the slums, there was a decrepit old guy. Got his social security check every month. Went down to the gas station and bought scratchers and played the slots until the money was gone. Every month.

No amount of reasoning, logic, statistics or anything could convince him that this was not smart to do.  He would answer everything with: you can't win if you don't play. 

That's how the covid Vax is. I could show how rolling the dice with the virus is riskier than doing so with the shot. And the inevitability that you will get covid at some point. It wouldn't do any good. 

For me a stupid death is one of my greatest fears. I always buckle my seat belt. 

I have a rudimentary understanding of statistics. I don't play the lotto.

 You must have confidence in the institutions who collect, analyze, and disseminate the information you're talking about. You have trust. I do not. That is really the crux of the issue.

How close is "the data" to the actual truth. I have no earthly idea. Why do I not trust these institutions? It's not just because that young woman died. It's because I know that people in positions of authority are willing to put ideology before the truth, even if it's under the guide of "doing what's best" or "for the greater good." And I've seen countless examples of the "trusted authorities" lie to and denigrate the American public.

So if you want to be flippant about the absolute rupture between our institutions and about half of the population, go ahead. You are missing the point and you won't win anyone to your side. I actually think you probably care about that, unlike the makers of this website, so you might want to change your strategy.

[hakutaku]

12 hours ago, Winchester said:

Why did you choose that one? Is it the lowest?

Because it was the first one we had, and the beginning is the best place to start.

Edited September 27, 2021 by hakutaku

[Lilllabettt]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:10 AM, hakutaku said:

 the beginning is the best place to start.

The hills are alive.... with the sound of pedantry... la la la la

 

On 9/26/2021 at 10:59 PM, Ice_nine said:

I have a rudimentary understanding of statistics. I don't play the lotto.

 You must have confidence in the institutions who collect, analyze, and disseminate the information you're talking about. You have trust. I do not. That is really the crux of the issue.

How close is "the data" to the actual truth. I have no earthly idea. Why do I not trust these institutions? It's not just because that young woman died. It's because I know that people in positions of authority are willing to put ideology before the truth, even if it's under the guide of "doing what's best" or "for the greater good." And I've seen countless examples of the "trusted authorities" lie to and denigrate the American public.

So if you want to be flippant about the absolute rupture between our institutions and about half of the population, go ahead. You are missing the point and you won't win anyone to your side. I actually think you probably care about that, unlike the makers of this website, so you might want to change your strategy.

I mean, ok. I'm surrounded by doctors (like, 30 plus pediatricians) every day and they wring their hands, "why did the public stop trusting science" and I always say, look inward. More to the point, this is why: https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scientism/

So I'm not totally opposed to the idea that institutions are on the evil side.

But, I don't believe in grand conspiracy theories. Statistically, they can't survive. If more than two people know a secret plan the divulging of the secret plan is basically inevitable. There would have to be dozens,maybe hundreds if not thousands of people involved in a vaccine conspiracy. In today's day and age it's almost impossible to keep anything private. 

 

[KnightofChrist]

1 hour ago, Lilllabettt said:

The hills are alive.... with the sound of pedantry... la la la la

 

I mean, ok. I'm surrounded by doctors (like, 30 plus pediatricians) every day and they wring their hands, "why did the public stop trusting science" and I always say, look inward. More to the point, this is why: https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scientism/

So I'm not totally opposed to the idea that institutions are on the evil side.

But, I don't believe in grand conspiracy theories. Statistically, they can't survive. If more than two people know a secret plan the divulging of the secret plan is basically inevitable. There would have to be dozens,maybe hundreds if not thousands of people involved in a vaccine conspiracy. In today's day and age it's almost impossible to keep anything private. 

 

Doctors being overpriced name brand pill salesmen for Big Pharma is at least an open secret conspiracy. The opioid crisis exist in great part due to the deep financial ties and cooperation between doctors, government and Big Pharma.

Of course not all doctors are in on it, but more than enough that the good ones shouldn't have to wonder 'why don't they trust us?'

Edited September 29, 2021 by KnightofChrist

[Winchester]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:10 AM, hakutaku said:

Because it was the first one we had, and the beginning is the best place to start.

Why would the CFR at the beginning of an outbreak of a new virus in a specific population be the best one to go with? Is it the lowest, or something?

[hakutaku]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

Why would the CFR at the beginning of an outbreak of a new virus in a specific population be the best one to go with? Is it the lowest, or something?

I don't know what criteria you're using to decide what is "best."  You said it didn't matter and that I should pick one.  If you know the best one, just say what it is.

[Mercedes]

More reasons to avoid anti vax misinformation and protect yourself.

https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-followers-threaten-hospital-outspoken-205425431.html

[Winchester]

21 hours ago, hakutaku said:

I don't know what criteria you're using to decide what is "best."  You said it didn't matter and that I should pick one.  If you know the best one, just say what it is.

Where did I say it didn't matter?

[Ice_nine]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:24 PM, Lilllabettt said:

But, I don't believe in grand conspiracy theories. Statistically, they can't survive. If more than two people know a secret plan the divulging of the secret plan is basically inevitable. There would have to be dozens,maybe hundreds if not thousands of people involved in a vaccine conspiracy. In today's day and age it's almost impossible to keep anything private. 

 

You're coming at it from an angle like, there has to be some secret meeting with hooded men, blood oaths, and secret spells.

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I can't tell you if the uber rich of the world are literally drinking the blood of children in a source of immortality. It does seem pretty obvious however, that they have extracted more wealth from the middle class in the last year than maybe any time in history, and that they are certainly benefiting the most from the Covid crisis. Is that conspiracy?

I think you underestimate how powers and principalities can operate and dominate in the world. Especially when they have (almost) full control of the flow of information.

But ok, we can agree to disagree. I might very well be crazy. Or I'm reading the patterns right. Time will tell. And at the end of ages all will be revealed and what has been done in the darkness will be brought to the light. Thank God.

[hakutaku]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:53 AM, Winchester said:

Pick one.

Why is this such a problem?

 

12 hours ago, Winchester said:

Where did I say it didn't matter?

Right there where you indicated it shouldn't be a problem to just pick one.  Its not a problem that I picked the China one, right?