Afghanistan and Taliban

[Mercedes]

18 hours ago, chrysostom said:

No, what would lead you to make that inference?

I was thinking mostly about what sort of things would make the Taliban able to take over the country so quickly. Military force is one thing. Enjoying actual political support from various areas might be another, and since machine washable brought up bacha bazi I did wonder whether this had something to do with it.

How would bacha bazi make it easier for the Taliban to take over?

8 hours ago, Peace said:

From the standpoint of many Afghani people I wonder if the Taliban isn't viewed as a better option than the US backed puppet regime that was in place?

From what I've been reading there was hella corruption in the US backed government. People seem to view the Taliban as very harsh and strict, but fair. I was reading some information about how many people actually preferred to go to the Taliban courts to resolve disputes, because they didn't trust the other one to be fair.

It's not that the Taliban is "good" per se, but it seems that some folks view it as the lesser of two evils.

I mean, it's a legit point. If you have a US backed government in place, people are molesting boys and the US backed government lets them get away with it for political reasons, but then the Taliban says "hell no, let's put these molesters to death", which looks better to you?

I'd be inclined to speculate that the Taliban may seem fair from a males point of view, but from what I've read, Sharia Law is the epitome of injustice regarding women and girls.  The females that have spoken out have been unanimously terrified of Taliban rule.

[chrysostom]

42 minutes ago, Mercedes said:

How would bacha bazi make it easier for the Taliban to take over?

The Taliban apparently got their start opposing the practice.

From 1996: "The public nature of this abuse led to an increase in local support for the Taliban when the group’s founder, Mullah Omar, rescued a young boy..."

https://newlinesinstitute.org/afghanistan/what-about-the-boys-a-gendered-analysis-of-the-u-s-withdrawal-and-bacha-bazi-in-afghanistan/

Contrast with the USA allowing this practice on their own bases. I don't know to what extent this would actually have influenced the Taliban takeover but some people clearly think the Taliban's stance against bacha bazi made them more popular.

Obviously this doesn't diminish the horrors of Taliban rule for women. But the US military command needs to own the decisions which undermined their own goals of achieving peace and stability leading up to this year, because the outcome for so many innocents over there isn't looking great. If the US ignores child abuse happening on their own watch in order for the "greater good" of good relations with certain warlords but ends up losing the country to the Taliban anyway, then they've shot themselves in the foot.

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Mercedes said:

I'd be inclined to speculate that the Taliban may seem fair from a males point of view, but from what I've read, Sharia Law is the epitome of injustice regarding women and girls.  The females that have spoken out have been unanimously terrified of Taliban rule.

That could be right, but I think its tough to tell. The only woman we've seen on TV lately is that annoying white chick from CNN and like 2 other women who hate the Taliban. I think it's tough for us to get a feed on what the real situation on the ground is, because it's pretty clear that the Western Media is fixated on telling the "the Taliban is the devil who wants to oppress women" narrative. We've been painting this group as demons for the past 20 years, much in part to justify our invasion and occupation of their country. I don't have confidence that the full story is being told and that the views of all people are being reflected in our media. I suspect that if a woman tried to get on TV and said "I love the Taliban" you'd never hear from her. Her view would be edited out because it doesn't match the story that the media wants you to believe. I highly suspect that the reality of what is going on the ground down there is nothing like how it is being portrayed.

[Machine_Washable]

3 hours ago, Mercedes said:

How would bacha bazi make it easier for the Taliban to take over?

I'd be inclined to speculate that the Taliban may seem fair from a males point of view, but from what I've read, Sharia Law is the epitome of injustice regarding women and girls.  The females that have spoken out have been unanimously terrified of Taliban rule.

It is a fair point that it’s easier for a man to say the Taliban are tough but fair than a woman. I looked for good polling on this question but didn’t see any. There are definitely Afghan women who support the Taliban. But I can’t say how much of the population this is. One thing to consider is that Afghanistan is a very conservative place. I would even say there is a lot of outright misogyny in the culture. So you’re not comparing the Taliban to a situation where women are given their rights. You’re comparing the Taliban to a culture that treats women very badly. 
 

For example, the Taliban have a very harsh interpretation of the sharia when it comes to the wali (a woman’s guardian who must accompany her on travels) but they oppose the practice of trading women like livestock to end tribal disputes. Which is a jahil practice you see in Afghanistan

[Mercedes]

Why do you think ISIS has carried out todays massacre when the allies are moving out?  Seems counter productive.

[Machine_Washable]

3 hours ago, Mercedes said:

Why do you think ISIS has carried out todays massacre when the allies are moving out?  Seems counter productive.

Counterproductive to the Taliban. But the Taliban and ISIS have been in conflict for years. So their interests don’t necessarily align. I don’t know if ISIS even considers the Taliban Muslims. I don’t know why ISIS did this. There could be some local goal or motive. If I run into any brothers from the area tomorrow I’ll ask them what they think and let you know. 
 

Some years ago I got on Twitter and I had some arguments with these guys who support ISIS. My impression of them is that they’re ignorant of their religion, have little to no fear of God, and entertain violent ideations. They just like hurting and killing people. I’m not saying there was no reason. They may well think it’s to their advantage for America to stay in Afghanistan. But I also don’t think they need a reason to want to kill people. It wouldn’t surprise me if the real root of this action was that they were defeated by America in Iraq and Syria while the Taliban defeated America in Afghanistan. They like hurting people, they like striking fear in people’s hearts, they like attention. They may just be mad that the spotlight is on the Taliban. 

[little2add]

I keep hearing that it’s the fighting season in Afghanistan.  
In America we have four seasons, fall, winter, spring and summer. 

What is this, so-called “ fighting season” all about?

[chrysostom]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

I keep hearing that it’s the fighting season in Afghanistan.  
In America we have four seasons, fall, winter, spring and summer. 

What is this, so-called “ fighting season” all about?

As far as I know...wintertime puts an end to fighting season as it is quite harsh.

[rosamundi]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

What is this, so-called “ fighting season” all about?

Fighting is seasonal - the harvest is in, the weather is better, manpower can be spared from the fields and you're way less likely to get bogged down in harsh weather.

Europe used to have similar.

Edited August 27, 2021 by rosamundi
bad apostrophe! Go to your room!

[hakutaku]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:43 AM, Machine_Washable said:

One thing to consider is that Afghanistan is a very conservative place. I would even say there is a lot of outright misogyny in the culture. So you’re not comparing the Taliban to a situation where women are given their rights. You’re comparing the Taliban to a culture that treats women very badly. 

Women had made great strides in the 50s and 60s, before Russia then the US decided to invade.

[little2add]

3 hours ago, rosamundi said:

4 hours ago, little2add said:

 

Fighting is seasonal - the harvest is in, the weather is better, manpower can be spared from the fields and you're way less likely to get bogged down in harsh weather

Not when, what is it exactly?  open warfare? What do you call it:  the“time to murder” season?

that reminds me of a song:

For everything there is a season, A time for every activity under heaven. A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant and a time to harvest.
 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by little2add

[Machine_Washable]

6 minutes ago, little2add said:

Not when, what is it exactly?  open warfare? What do you call it:  the“time to murder” season?

that reminds me of a song:

For everything there is a season, A time for every activity under heaven. A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant and a time to harvest.
 

 

It’s not a religious term. The Afghans are fighting an occupying force. When do they fight? They fight when they can move around the country. I live in Canada. If there was an occupying army here you’d see a lull in fighting during the winter. There’s snow everywhere. It’s hard to get around for the occupiers and the occupied. Nobody is moving much. That’s really all it is. 
 

I don’t even know if this is a word the Afghans came up with or the Americans. Either way it describes a tendency. Not a rule or anything. 

[little2add]

 

 

[Ice_nine]

On 8/23/2021 at 1:10 AM, Machine_Washable said:

I have never heard of a Christian community in Afghanistan.

gee, wonder why that is.

[hakutaku]

21 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

gee, wonder why that is.

Because religious belief is usually the product of local social forces rather than philosophical investigation, so pockets of minority religions arising from homogeneous communities are rare?