fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread

[little2add]

22 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Yes.  For multiple reasons.

What’s wrong with you?

[fides' Jack]

13 hours ago, mommas_boy said:

For you to state otherwise is at a minimum morally irresponsible insofar as it leads others to make the wrong decisions regarding their own health, and at a maximum illegal.

For people to speak the truth in such a time there is always a risk of being persecuted.  But at the very least I have the defense of many hundreds of peer reviewed studies, and public statements from the most qualified doctors, saying exactly what I have said.

At minimum, it has always been immoral for anyone to get a covid shot, if for only the sake of prudence (there are many other reasons). 

The contents of the shots are still not entirely disclosed.  We have been told they are using mRNA technology, which in the case of vaccinations for humans is entirely new, and human testing before public release was not done, thanks to Trump and operation warpspeed.  Before we started, we had absolutely no knowledge of the side effects, short term or long term.  After we started, qualified doctors shared many, many concerns regarding both short term and long term, and were entirely ignored by both government and mainstream media.  We still don't have any proof whatsoever that there aren't absolutely devastating long-term consequences, and there's a lot of evidence to suggest there are devastating long-term consequences.  But now we also have the evidence that many countries are banning them for younger populations.  

Do you believe any of the statements in the previous paragraph are false?  Any one of the statements there would be enough to disqualify the covid shots strictly based on prudence.  

It was always immoral to get the covid shots, and it remains so today.

 

3 hours ago, ReasonableFaith said:

Always fun to see persons who would despise him in real life carry water for him and drive his ad revenue. 

I don't despise anyone.

4 minutes ago, little2add said:

What’s wrong with you?

An awful lot.  But that doesn't make me wrong on this matter.

14 hours ago, mommas_boy said:

and at a maximum illegal.

"For example, applying home remedies, offering advice, and writing about nutrition or medical conditions are not considered practicing medicine."

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/practicing-medicine-without-a-license.htm

I have never claimed to be a doctor.  I have only offered advice as I see it, and posted links to videos, articles, and scientific studies.

It would be more than a stretch to charge me with practicing medicine without a license, on a niche online forum where most people think I'm nothing more than spam.

[fides' Jack]

17 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

At minimum, it has always been immoral for anyone to get a covid shot, if for only the sake of prudence (there are many other reasons). 

This is actually incorrect.  I meant "almost anyone".  Those who were the most susceptible to covid originally probably had enough cause that the morality of both the prudence and abortion arguments were overcome.

[little2add]

23 hours ago, little2add said:

 

On 10/3/2022 at 3:07 PM, fides' Jack said:

proper morality makes it necessary to refuse the covid shots

Are you suggesting that getting the vacine is immoral?

 

 

6 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

23 hours ago, little2add said:

Are you suggesting that getting the vacine is immoral?

Yes.  For multiple reasons

Do you so condemn people working in the medical fields (doctors, nurses, EPM’s, who Have been vaccinated and boosted in order to render care to The sick and elderly regardless of their status?  
my wife is an RN she was vaccinated and boosted and exposed herself Along with her coworkers to this deadly virus.    
  Mind you that the real possibility of exposing her elderly parents, her children, her grandchildren and me, her husband  to Covid is ever present but she goes into work every day. 

 

Her actions to takec the Covid vaccine is not immoral, In any way shape or form.   
 

i’m sorry but you are an apology to not only her but to  the medical professions who have exposed themselves to this deadly disease to save life and comfort the families who have lost loved one’s, etc. 
 

shame on you
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by little2add

[fides' Jack]

I don't condemn anyone.  Nor do I judge them in any way whatsoever.

I can judge actions, though.  I don't judge your wife's actions.  I judge the actions of people like Fauci, who should be charged with crimes against humanity.

But this is not the first time I've made this claim on this forum.  I guess it's the first time you've read it.

26 minutes ago, little2add said:

shame on you

Why?

Lying is a sin, and it's one that most people commit with some regularity.  I'm sure you've lied before in your life.  But I don't think you would say "shame on you" because I called lying a sin - even though, like the covid shots, most people in the world would say that some lies are not sins at all.

26 minutes ago, little2add said:

i’m sorry but you are an apology to not only her but to  the medical professions who have exposed themselves to this deadly disease to save life and comfort the families who have lost loved one’s, etc. 

Relax.  I'm not judging anyone.  I'm not condemning anyone.

26 minutes ago, little2add said:

Her actions to takec the Covid vaccine is not immoral, In any way shape or form.   

As I said, there were probably, originally, some valid reasons to take the shot.  As I don't know you or your wife, I can't say whether it was immoral for her to take it.  I can just say it is my opinion that most people who took the shot acted immorally.  

I don't need to apologize for my opinion.

28 minutes ago, little2add said:

Do you so condemn people working in the medical fields (doctors, nurses, EPM’s, who Have been vaccinated and boosted in order to render care to The sick and elderly regardless of their status?

The fact that they were required to be vaccinated and boosted in order to render care to the sick and the elderly speaks to the severity of the health industry.  It is completely corrupt at all but the lowest levels, the individual doctors and nurses who truly care about their patients.

That fact reveals an egregious violation of the Nuremburg Code.

Edited October 4, 2022 by fides' Jack
clarification

[little2add]

11 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

I don't condemn anyone.  Nor do I judge them in any way whatsoever

You stated repeatedly that taking the covid vaccine is immoral.

Maybe this vid will help you comprehend the meaning of “immoral”

 

[fides' Jack]

Just now, little2add said:

You stated repeatedly that taking the covid vaccine is immoral.

That doesn't mean I'm judging them or condemning them.  Maybe you need a refresher on what judgment actually means.

All Catholics are called to judge actions.  We are warned against judging persons.  But even Fauci I don't judge.  Only God truly knows the state of his soul.  And I pray that God has mercy on him.

[mommas_boy]

7 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

No - in fact the voices have been very split.  Not one voice at all.  Thousands of doctors are now very much against the shots and have publicly voiced as much.  Many of them have lost their jobs as a result.  So this statement is just false.

Why do you think that they have lost their jobs? Because of some grand conspiracy? Or because they broke their Oaths, and did harm? These folks are not heroes.

7 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Not according to the latest statistical studies.

You are not qualified to read these studies. You do not have the degree, the coursework, nor the background in following the totality of all of these studies in order to put each individual study into its proper context. You are not a medical professional.

[little2add]

God bless the men and women who work in healthcare.  
pray for those who selfishly sacrificed so much to care for the sick and  dying souls.   

[fides' Jack]

15 minutes ago, mommas_boy said:

Why do you think that they have lost their jobs? Because of some grand conspiracy? Or because they broke their Oaths, and did harm? These folks are not heroes.

Then it's not real science, is it, when people lose their jobs because they disagree.  And if it's not based on real science, it's probably based on politics, or worse.

15 minutes ago, mommas_boy said:

You are not qualified to read these studies. You do not have the degree, the coursework, nor the background in following the totality of all of these studies in order to put each individual study into its proper context. You are not a medical professional.

I'm not even qualified to read them?  Give me a break.  Why don't you judge the studies yourself then.  There are many linked in this thread.  I've seen many more I haven't linked here.  

That's a fallacy you've fallen into, and a real one, not one made up by some gen z kids on the internet.

I guess you also think because I'm not a woman I should have no say in whether abortion is legal in my state.  Or because I've never messed with a ouija board I can't say that it's sinful and harmful to play with one.  

5 minutes ago, little2add said:

God bless the men and women who work in healthcare.  
pray for those who selflessly sacrificed so much to care for the sick and  dying souls.   

Amen!

And God also bless those who act according to their consciences, regardless of the consequences.  And God always give us all the strength to do so.

Edited October 4, 2022 by fides' Jack

[chrysostom]

15 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

it just isn't a good idea to give out medical advice online, especially if one is not a qualified medical professional.

By that token, no one aside from doctors should have been promoting getting the shot.

[cruciatacara]

46 minutes ago, chrysostom said:

By that token, no one aside from doctors should have been promoting getting the shot.

I didn't say people couldn't state their opinion, but in matters of public health, they should not set themselves up as medical experts, which you seem to do. I think the medical and scientific professionals made it quite clear that the vaccine was of benefit in fighting the COVID virus. Anything you say is just opinion, not fact.

[mommas_boy]

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Then it's not real science, is it, when people lose their jobs because they disagree.  And if it's not based on real science, it's probably based on politics, or worse.

Galileo was sentenced not because he disagreed, but because he zealously proclaimed as dogma what was then still uncertain. Despite his horrible scientific method and data to suggest otherwise, he was only later proven correct and, I might add, in spite of himself (He had, after all, no evidence that the earth went around the sun. He could not answer why there was no evidence of annual parallax shift. He had evidence only that Jupiter had moons and that Venus went around the Sun. He could not rule out a Tychonic model of the solar system). It was his pride, not his disagreement, that led to his downfall.

Likewise, any disagreement regarding the COVID vaccines should have been kept to internal discussions where it could have done some good, and not shouted from the rooftops for personal fame where it could only result in panic and confusion.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

I'm not even qualified to read them?  Give me a break.  Why don't you judge the studies yourself then.  There are many linked in this thread.  I've seen many more I haven't linked here.

Because I, like you, am not qualified to read them. I have not read the totality of studies on the topic in order to come to a conclusion regarding even one study. I do not have the required coursework nor clinical experience to come to a fulsome understanding of the data. On review of the data, I have no way of knowing if I am "cherry picking" data to suit my arguments. My only recourse to both report data as well as to place those data in their proper context is to rely on the experts who have that understanding.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

That's a fallacy you've fallen into, and a real one, not one made up by some gen z kids on the internet.

I'm sorry that you believe that this is a fallacy. Simply put, there is a difference between knowledge and understanding, knowledge and expertise. That difference is experience. That difference is, as I like to call it, "seeing the shape of the bell curve", because one has the benefit of thousands of data points to know what the bell curve is shaped like.

As a disability adjudicator, I make decisions not just about medical conditions and impairments, but also about work and the ability to perform work. In order to do the latter, I use a book published by the Dept of Labor called the Dictionary of Occupational Titles ("DOT"), amongst other books. A central theme of the book, and of the disability program as a whole, is whether or not someone has worked in a job long enough to have learned it. We don't argue that someone can "return" to their past work unless they worked in it long enough to have learned it.

For my job, I know that I had to go through 6 mos of classroom education to initially "learn" the job: the medicine, the law, etc. But even that wasn't enough. I didn't really "understand" my job when I was done with class. Similarly, when I graduated from college with my degree in Chemistry Education, I "knew" the job, but I sure wasn't an expert. I wouldn't even count myself as a novice. What was missing was experience, not knowledge. How much experience? Well, the DOT tells us the answer: for teaching and adjudication, the answer is two-to-four years. For doctors: four-to-eight. For surgeons: eight-to-ten. And that's as high as the scale goes.

27 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

I guess you also think because I'm not a woman I should have no say in whether abortion is legal in my state.  Or because I've never messed with a ouija board I can't say that it's sinful and harmful to play with one. 

Ultimately, what I'm asking for is a modicum of humility. You're not an expert in this topic. You are, undoubtedly, an expert in others. You run the risk of causing real harm when pontificating in this topic. Please, direct the Lord's sheep toward those who can best help them.

[fides' Jack]

1 hour ago, mommas_boy said:

Ultimately, what I'm asking for is a modicum of humility. You're not an expert in this topic. You are, undoubtedly, an expert in others. You run the risk of causing real harm when pontificating in this topic. Please, direct the Lord's sheep toward those who can best help them.

I was going to try to answer your comment, point by point, and then I came to this one.  So I won't go there.  I respect your earnest plea.  I do believe you'll find future generations will know that "those who can best help them" will not have included anyone among the government nor any connected medical authority.

You seem willing to listen to at least some reason, so I will try it this way: I think we all agree, if I am wrong about the shots, and the government response to the "pandemic" was reasonable, then so is your rebuttal to me.  You're right - I am not an expert in any medical field, and learned experience, as you say, as well as humility, would seem to demand of us that we let the real experts guide others toward truth.  After all, they should know truth best.

With me so far?

Now consider this - if I am right about the shots (just assume I am for this hypothetical), then I am absolutely justified in my comments and my presence here.  Not only justified, but morally obligated.  I, and everyone else, would have a moral obligation to fight this thing at every turn, and to speak out against it as vociferously as possible.  That would be the least of the moral obligation.

Your position is only tenable if I am wrong about the shots.  

Do you think I don't believe what I'm saying?  Do you honestly believe I'm intentionally trying to lead people to something bad?  Or that I'm just being a troll looking for fun?  At the very least I would hope the tone of my comments here would convince others of my conviction on the matter.  They may not agree, but I would hope they understand that I am following my conscience, and at least respect that, as I respect them for following their own.

Now consider one more thing.  I am not a full expert on moral theology, either, but I'm far closer to that than to the medical field.  I know, as you do, that Christ said in the Gospels, "By their fruit you will know them".  The people who are pushing the shots and masks and shutdowns are the very same people who are pushing the most for abortion, for sex-change surgeries, even among children, for homosexuality, for euthanasia, for Communism, for idolatry, etc....  For that reason alone, I have enough to know they shouldn't be trusted.  And that's exactly why I never fully trusted Donald Trump.  

[fides' Jack]

This news is a couple weeks old now.  

"This removes the entire legal basis for the COVID passport"

https://gloria.tv/post/hm7WxoPCdE47613rh1eC4TBJJ

 

And from the Croatian representatives who want to know when Pfizer execs are going to be prosecuted, and their European contracts terminated:

Why did Australia order 255 million covid shot doses for 26 million people?

Other countries show even more outlandish numbers.  In December of 2020 (as the shots were coming out), Canada had secured 400 million doses, for 37 million people.