fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread

[Winchester]

17 hours ago, hakutaku said:

You:

Fides Jack

Some catholic priests like this guy.

A bunch of anti-semetic organizations who believe the whole thing is a Jewish conspiracy to create a new world order. (I won't link to their sites because they are terrible)

A bunch of other quacks

 

So for you, it's a moral and political thing. 
 

[Winchester]

19 hours ago, Mercedes said:

I don't know if this helps but the statistics today in New South Wales, Australia is that 1 in 10 people diagnosed with Covid are in hospital.  The death rate would exceed what you'd imagine because a number of deaths have occurred in peoples homes, the disease progressing too quickly for them to have gone to hospital.  

 

 

It might have been true at the beginning of the pandemic that people who died in their homes wouldn't be tested for SARS-COV-2, but it's doubtful that will be missed, now. Post mortem testing in the US began in mid 2020. I doubt New Zealand, which has gone full tyranny in its superstitious pursuit of "Zero Covid" is avoiding any chance to prove to its citizens that they are in grave danger.

The present CFR is 2 globally.  The IFR would be lower still. Among cases, many do not develop symptoms, so many people will have been infected and never tested since they didn't develop symptoms. Some people who were infected and developed mild symptoms (the vast majority of those with the disease) will also not be tested. It's still mostly affecting the aged and those with one or more comorbidities. Governments choosing to emulate China's approach (to varying degrees of severity) have surely made this worse. Children didn't receive Measles vaccines, cancer treatments were postponed, people avoided routine health maintenance, didn't fill prescriptions, and there's the despair of having your livelihood taken from you by politicians that deemed your job "non-essential".

The panic has been worse than the disease. The medical profession utterly failed to confront the political class.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Winchester

[hakutaku]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

So for you, it's a moral and political thing. 

Of course not!  There is an objective fact of the matter that COVID caused more deaths than were reported.  The data clearly shows this, and you have offered no other explanation than a flat denial-for-no-reason.

  But I understand that people like Fides Jack (and perhaps you too) don't believe there can be such a thing as an objective fact about the number of COVID deaths and might be projecting this belief onto others.

On 4/23/2021 at 1:25 AM, hakutaku said:

You believe facts are secondary to your own subjective opinion, and that you can therefore arbitrarily reject them.  Truth, to you, is relative.

 

On 4/23/2021 at 5:44 PM, hakutaku said:

You have refused to face the objective facts (e.g. the objective fact that is the excess death rate in 2020) because you don't believe there can be such a thing as an objective fact.  That's why you have to put "fact" in scare quotes.

 

[Peace]

I find the name of this thread "fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread" to be most comical.

Most comical indeed.

[hakutaku]

5 hours ago, Winchester said:

Children didn't receive Measles vaccines, cancer treatments were postponed, people avoided routine health maintenance, didn't fill prescriptions...

The panic has been worse than the disease. The medical profession utterly failed to confront the political class.

And hospitals full of people dying from COVID meant there was less capacity for "ordinary" emergencies.

There definitely were increases in mortality during the pandemic for reasons other than the disease.  But if your theory is correct (i.e. that harsh government lockdowns caused more deaths than the disease) then we should expect countries with the strictest rules (e.g. Australia) to have worse outcomes in terms of excess death than countries with lax rules (e.g. the USA).

I'm sure you've got that data to back up your assertion, right?

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, hakutaku said:

And hospitals full of people dying from COVID meant there was less capacity for "ordinary" emergencies.

There definitely were increases in mortality during the pandemic for reasons other than the disease.  But if your theory is correct (i.e. that harsh government lockdowns caused more deaths than the disease) then we should expect countries with the strictest rules (e.g. Australia) to have worse outcomes in terms of excess death than countries with lax rules (e.g. the USA).

I'm sure you've got that data to back up your assertion, right?

Where did I say the lockdown caused more deaths than the disease?
 

[Winchester]

5 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Of course not!  There is an objective fact of the matter that COVID caused more deaths than were reported.  The data clearly shows this, and you have offered no other explanation than a flat denial-for-no-reason.

  But I understand that people like Fides Jack (and perhaps you too) don't believe there can be such a thing as an objective fact about the number of COVID deaths and might be projecting this belief onto others.

 

 

The article you linked to about the study references a modeling study. It's not "objective", it's the result of a model. Models give out information based on the design of the model, which is based on the beliefs of the people conducting the study.

They didn't track down and verify causes of deaths. They thought about the issue, analyzed, and then built a computer model. 
 

I am sure there is an objective number of people who died due to Covid-19 (or with it as a major contributing cause. For instance, someone who was hospitalized for Covid-19, beat it, but succumbed to a nosocomial infection), just as there is an objective (and necessarily larger number) of people who died while infected with SARS-COV-2, but not of Covid-19. It's doubtful we'll ever know that number. We can get close. We will over or undershoot it. I believe in the US, the number has been overshot. Again, not by the degree some believe (I don't believe there's a concerted effort to raise the count. I think it's the function of bureaucracy, incentives, and the workload). Determining these numbers isn't as easy as people seem to think. One of the complications in singling out one disease as the cause is that people who die with respiratory infections often have more than one infection. And deciding whether something is the cause or an aggravating factor is somewhat a matter of opinion.

Yes, there is objective truth. I believe that. But we're human. We have to approximate most of the time.

 

[fides' Jack]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, hakutaku said:

If they were dying normally, we would not see such a large number of excess deaths.

It was shown last year that there weren't a large number of excess deaths.

Until they changed the numbers.  Now everything is a lie.  All the numbers are made up out of thin air.  

On 9/5/2021 at 10:25 AM, hakutaku said:

https://www.healthandsciencefacts.com/post/dr-christina-parks-viral-rant-on-tdap-and-covid-19-vaccines

She is in the "vaccines cause autism" crowd, which is loony tunes.  Her COVID opinions are just as loony.

Prove it wrong, without relying on arguments from authority.

On 9/6/2021 at 3:24 PM, hakutaku said:

But if your theory is correct (i.e. that harsh government lockdowns caused more deaths than the disease) then we should expect countries with the strictest rules (e.g. Australia) to have worse outcomes in terms of excess death than countries with lax rules (e.g. the USA).

Different countries are lying in different ways to achieve the same outcome.  It's completely obvious, and completely "loony".  

On 9/6/2021 at 3:58 AM, dUSt said:

Merging all the fide Jack anti-vax threads into one.

Just curious - how many were merged?

[Winchester]

14 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

 

Just curious - how many were merged?

Make another one.

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

Make another one.

Yeah, I thought about it.  But thanks to ReasonableFaith I think the time for physical evidence against the powers that be is practically useless.  People have chosen their camps.

[Winchester]

4 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Yeah, I thought about it.  But thanks to ReasonableFaith I think the time for physical evidence against the powers that be is practically useless.  People have chosen their camps.

Exactly my point.

[dUSt]

On 9/7/2021 at 4:55 PM, fides' Jack said:

 

Just curious - how many were merged?

If YOU don’t even know how many vax threads you started you might want to think about your posting choices. 

[Winchester]

14 hours ago, dUSt said:

If YOU don’t even know how many vax threads you started you might want to think about your posting choices. 

That's like telling Tesla he need to invent less stuff.

[Didacus]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:09 AM, Winchester said:

[Snip]
The panic has been worse than the disease. The medical profession utterly failed to confront the political class.

And right there is the summary of the core fundamental problem of the panic.

Well said sir... well said indeed!

[fides' Jack]

16 hours ago, dUSt said:

If YOU don’t even know how many vax threads you started you might want to think about your posting choices. 

I just want to get the messages out, and I'm not on facebook or gab or wherever else people normally do these things.

I don't see how that follows.

1 hour ago, Winchester said:

That's like telling Tesla he need to invent less stuff.

I'm not really sure how to take that.