fides' Jack's Mega Anti-Vax Thread

[Mercedes]

20 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Medical knowledge, until 2020, told us that the best immunity against all coronaviruses is through getting it and surviving it.  Even the best vaccines don't get close to natural immunity.  So these new "vaccines" are just magic?  Do you honestly believe that?

Can you site specific examples?

[KnightofChrist]

1 hour ago, Mercedes said:

To understand your position, do you denounce quarantine facilities en masse including those created for black plague, yellow fever, cholera etc etc which were built to isolate sailors and passengers during those pandemics.  Or is your objection only regarding Covid quarantine?

In historical light of Nazi concentration camps, Russian gulags and American Japanese Internment camps, *#&( no, to be quiet frank with you. 

I refuse to be groomed. 

Do you support using the military to enforce lockdowns in a free republic? Should the military be forcing people, locking people in their homes as China did?

Also, if you were an American would you support the Patriot Act? It was supposed to be temporary, Americans would only temporarily lose some freedoms for the safety and welfare of the public. At least that is how it was sold at first. Just until the war on terror was over. 20yrs later it's not temporary and any one who thinks it is, is an idiot. 

 

1 hour ago, hakutaku said:

I think this is a great analogy.  Anti-vaxxers do view forced quarantine as equivalent to being a political prisoner.  They are so genuinely unconcerned with the wellbeing of others that they cannot understand how protecting other people's health is a valid justification for forcing them to do something they don't want to do.  Since "concern for others" is out as a motivation they understand, the only thing left is politics.

From the outside, it seems like the murderers in prison have declared the prison an internment camp for people with pro-murder political views.

They're just evil wicked dirty stupid sick selfish people, I know I know. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by KnightofChrist

[hakutaku]

4 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

In historical light of Nazi concentration camps, Russian gulags and American Japanese Internment camps, *#&( no, to be quiet frank with you. 

I refuse to be groomed. 

There are certainly contexts in which that kind of stubborn resistance to authority is commendable.  But in this case it has gotten over 650,000 Americans killed.

5 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Do you support using the military to enforce lockdowns in a free republic?

Depends on whether or not the police have the means to do so instead.

[KnightofChrist]

16 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

There are certainly contexts in which that kind of stubborn resistance to authority is commendable.  But in this case it has gotten over 650,000 Americans killed.

That is Extremism. You're making people into the virus. A large part of that number died before a vaccine was even available. Degrading people as you continue to do and or throwing those people who don't want to be vaccinated into camps isn't the answer. Not in a free republic, China, Nazi Germany the only answer allowed but still the wrong answer.

16 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Depends on whether or not the police have the means to do so instead.

The military exist to kill and immobilize enemies of the state, when it's used against the people it's meant to protect the people become the enemies of the state. A dangerous path to go down. In 20 years you may regret your support of it as I greatly and profoundly regret my former and foolish support of the Patriot Act. States do not give our freedoms back when we allow our freedoms to be taken. And it's always for the welfare of the community.

I suggest all should read this article. This will be my last post in this thread all replies to be are likely to be ignored.

Phys.Org: Using military language (and military forces) might not be the best approach to COVID and public health

Source: https://phys.org/news/2021-08-military-language-approach-covid-health.html

[Peace]

13 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I will start by saying, I'm not an anti-vaxxer.  I am anti-Covid-"vaccines".  

That being said, we "anti-vaxxers" (since it's clear you're referring to anti-covid-vaxxers) are much, MUCH more concerned for others than you are.  Fauci is guilty of mass-murder.  Because of his policies, hundreds of millions of the world's poorest faced starvation, and continue to face it.  

It's precisely because we have a true concern for others that we're fighting this.

Love offers.  Evil imposes.

I think you are attempting to make the argument that more people have/will die due to starvation related economic slowdown caused by Fauci's policies, than have/will die due to the virus if the prevention measures he advised had not been implemented?

That is a pretty tough argument to make. And accusing someone of "Mass-murder" is a pretty serious charge unless you can back it up. That is certainly the sin of "rash-judgment" unless you can back it up.

That would be the same as me saying "People like @fides' Jack who refuse to take the vaccine and who refuse to take social distancing measures are guilty of mass-murder by causing deaths through the spread of the virus". Unless I can back that up, it's a pretty serious charge.

[fides' Jack]

17 hours ago, hakutaku said:

Calling this a gene therapy is a misnomer, this does not modify our genes.

I'm not convinced of that.  Top Google result: "In biology, a gene is a basic unit of heredity and a sequence of nucleotides in DNA or RNA that encodes the synthesis of a gene product, either RNA or protein."  

Sounds like we're directly messing with RNA now.  We're injecting people with modified RNA.  It absolutely is gene therapy.

17 hours ago, hakutaku said:

"we don't know what the long term effects will be"

"the long term effects will be no economic recovery"

These can't both be true.  Either you know or you don't.

Different contexts there, son.

I know the long-term effects to the economy if you continue to obey your demonic overlords.  I do not know for sure the long-term health effects.  In my mind, it's 50/50 that people will die en masse within a couple years due to this experimental gene therapy.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did or if they didn't.

17 hours ago, hakutaku said:

4.5 billion vaccine doses have been administered worldwide.  When can we expect people to start getting sicker?

People with far more medical experience than I (dozens that I've read or listened to so far), have given timeframes from 6 months to 3 years.  We're already passed the 6 month mark, although we've also seen a lot of deaths.  So I don't know.  Like I said, 50/50.

 

By the way, @KnightofChrist, I recognize that you have already had the shot (I'm fairly certain I saw that somewhere), and yet you're continuing to argue here against vaccine mandates.  I commend you for that.  You have proven that you don't fall into the error in the WWII adage (that I don't know the original source for):

"First, they came for the Jews, but I am not a Jew, so I did not speak out."

Soon it will be:

"First, they came for the unvaccinated, but I am vaccinated, so I did not speak out."

Thank you.

16 hours ago, hakutaku said:

But in this case it has gotten over 650,000 Americans killed.

Lies of this sort got millions of Jews killed less than a century ago.

[fides' Jack]

4 hours ago, Peace said:

I think you are attempting to make the argument that more people have/will die due to starvation related economic slowdown caused by Fauci's policies, than have/will die due to the virus if the prevention measures he advised had not been implemented?

That is a pretty tough argument to make. And accusing someone of "Mass-murder" is a pretty serious charge unless you can back it up. That is certainly the sin of "rash-judgment" unless you can back it up.

That would be the same as me saying "People like @fides' Jack who refuse to take the vaccine and who refuse to take social distancing measures are guilty of mass-murder by causing deaths through the spread of the virus". Unless I can back that up, it's a pretty serious charge.

Absolutely that's what I'm saying.

Consider it backed up.  This story was posted everywhere, but I just grabbed the first one I saw on Google:

https://www.dhakatribune.com/health/coronavirus/2020/10/16/un-chief-130-million-people-face-starvation-risk-by-year-end

Even with the inflated govt stats, the number of people who have covid-attributed deaths throughout the world is far, far lower than this single aspect of the repercussions of the lockdowns, even if you assume that this number is greatly exaggerated.  And this only takes into account those who were already at poverty levels.  Many, many more than this have been brought to poverty levels because they lost their livelihoods.  And there are a host of other terrible consequences of all this, any one of which is enough to put Fauci behind bars.

Not to mention he lied under oath to Congress, which in itself should have him behind bars for several years, if our justice system actually obeyed the law.

5 hours ago, Peace said:

That would be the same as me saying "People like @fides' Jack who refuse to take the vaccine and who refuse to take social distancing measures are guilty of mass-murder by causing deaths through the spread of the virus".

And that would be impossible to prove.  Still, that time is coming.

[Peace]

3 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

Absolutely that's what I'm saying.

Consider it backed up.  This story was posted everywhere, but I just grabbed the first one I saw on Google:

https://www.dhakatribune.com/health/coronavirus/2020/10/16/un-chief-130-million-people-face-starvation-risk-by-year-end

Even with the inflated govt stats, the number of people who have covid-attributed deaths throughout the world is far, far lower than this single aspect of the repercussions of the lockdowns, even if you assume that this number is greatly exaggerated.  And this only takes into account those who were already at poverty levels.  Many, many more than this have been brought to poverty levels because they lost their livelihoods.  And there are a host of other terrible consequences of all this, any one of which is enough to put Fauci behind bars.

Not to mention he lied under oath to Congress, which in itself should have him behind bars for several years, if our justice system actually obeyed the law.

Are you serious? That's no proof of your assertion at all.

[fides' Jack]

Just now, Peace said:

Are you serious? That's no proof of your assertion at all.

it's more proof than the potential claim that you posited could ever have.  I am not guilty of murder because I don't trust the government's experimental shots.

[Peace]

7 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

it's more proof than the potential claim that you posited could ever have.  I am not guilty of murder because I don't trust the government's experimental shots.

Well that's not my potential claim. I think that both of them are ludicrous, for the record.

[fides' Jack]

15 minutes ago, Peace said:

Well that's not my potential claim. I think that both of them are ludicrous, for the record.

I didn't mean your potential claim, but I do appreciate your honesty.  That is hakutaku's current claim, however.  And it's a very, very scary one.

[hakutaku]

16 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

That is Extremism. You're making people into the virus. A large part of that number died before a vaccine was even available. Degrading people as you continue to do and or throwing those people who don't want to be vaccinated into camps isn't the answer. Not in a free republic, China, Nazi Germany the only answer allowed but still the wrong answer.

Lets review the plot I posted earlier, in which the USA has had over 20x the deaths per capita vs Australia:

So we know for certain that by using the power of the state to enforce common sense mandates we could have had 1/20th the death toll.

653,987 * (1-1/20) = 620000

So I will correct my statement: stubborn resistance to Australian style enforcement resulted in 620,000 unnecessary American deaths.

 

You seem to be confused by a mishmash of conspiracy theories.  You don't need a vaccine to quarantine.  You don't need a vaccine to enforce lockdowns or mask mandates.  All of these things work together to separate the Australian death rate from the US.

[fides' Jack]

18 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

So I will correct my statement: stubborn resistance to Australian style enforcement resulted in 620,000 unnecessary American deaths.

And that same line of reasoning was responsible for deaths of millions of Jews less than a century ago.

It's a lie.  Always has been.  Always will be.

[hakutaku]

42 minutes ago, fides' Jack said:

And that same line of reasoning was responsible for deaths of millions of Jews less than a century ago.

It's a lie.  Always has been.  Always will be.

This is loony tunes logic.  Sure, Nazi propaganda accused the Jews of spreading disease.  They also accused them of being demonic overlords who were responsible for sinking the economy.  And of being responsible for German military defeats.  And of being communists trying to control people.

It was all conspiracy theory quackery that was eaten up by a public that had never liked the Jews much to begin with.

To conclude that "all government enforcement of public health measures is like the holocaust" is to both minimize the holocaust, and to wear your philosophical pantaloons on your head. 

2 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I know the long-term effects to the economy if you continue to obey your demonic overlords

You said that taking the vaccines will result in the economy never recovering.  How, specifically, will that happen?

[fides' Jack]

8 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

You said that taking the vaccines will result in the economy never recovering.  How, specifically, will that happen?

Well, I don't know the exact order or timing of future events.  I am 100% certain that the economy of the world will fall, war will hit again (across the entire world this time), and at some point, for a period of 3.5 years, the world will have a single ruler, who will mandate a mark on everyone, and people who refuse will be killed, and those who get the mark will go to hell.  By that point there really isn't even an "economy" left to argue about.  There's only the globalist order.

15 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Sure, Nazi propaganda accused the Jews of spreading disease.  They also accused them of being demonic overlords who were responsible for sinking the economy.  And of being responsible for German military defeats.  And of being communists trying to control people.

Every single one of these is the same argument.  And it's the exact same argument you're putting on unvaccinated people.