Jägerstätter, Schneider, Vaccines, and Us

[Peace]

6 hours ago, hakutaku said:

This is what makes religion dangerous to society.  While enlightened and well educated religious leadership can understand the balance between social and religious interests, the non-elites cannot.  This inability to balance priorities frequently leads to socially harmful extremism among local religious groups.

What? Literally nothing has been more dangerous to society than atheism.

1 hour ago, hakutaku said:

What about "Cafeteria Vaxxer" is dehumanizing?

Maybe you find all terms used to denote group membership dehumanizing.  Is the term "Catholic" dehumanizing?

Aw get out of here with this BS. You know plenty well that term is meant to offend. Playing games.

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, hakutaku said:

In much the same way that we segregate smokers from non-smokers, I have no problem with vaccine-based segregation.  I am just as comfortable with schools/workplaces/airlines/etc having a no-smoking policy as I am with them having a no-vaccine-preventable-disease policy.

I see anti-covid-vaxxers as about as intelligent as smokers.

 

1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

As to the actual topic of those persons who've not be vaccinated for covid-19, despite the public perception that most "anti-vaxxers" are a bunch of "white Right-wing maga Trumpers" actual data from the CDC shows it's mostly African Americans and other non-whites who are not vaccinated for covid-19.

Which for civil liberties advocates should be concerning. If vaccine passports and vaccine only is enforced it will effectively be neo-jim crow.

"Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (59%), 10% were Black, 16% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. " source: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

 

Faced with the data from my previous post do you still support segregating the 'unintelligent anti-vaxxers'?

[hakutaku]

1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

As to the actual topic of those persons who've not be vaccinated for covid-19, despite the public perception that most "anti-vaxxers" are a bunch of "white Right-wing maga Trumpers" actual data from the CDC shows it's mostly African Americans and other non-whites who are not vaccinated for covid-19.

Which for civil liberties advocates should be concerning. If vaccine passports and vaccine only is enforced it will effectively be neo-jim crow.

"Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (59%), 10% were Black, 16% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. " source: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

The KFF site seems to indicate that racial vaccine distribution is within one or two percentage points of even, and that the gaps are closing.

This makes sense, since the CDC household pulse surveys had found that African Americans were more likely to say "I'm waiting to see if it is safe" than other races when asked why they hadn't been vaccinated yet (indeed, they were less likely to say "I don't trust the government" than whites.)

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2021/demo/hhp/hhp33.html

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by hakutaku

[KnightofChrist]

2 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

The KFF site seems to indicate that racial vaccine distribution is within one or two percentage points of even, and that the gap is closing.

This makes sense, since the CDC household pulse surveys had found that African Americans were more likely to say "I'm waiting to see if it is safe" than other races when asked why they hadn't been vaccinated yet (indeed, they were less likely to say "I don't trust the government" than whites.)

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2021/demo/hhp/hhp33.html

 

Not so much actually

"Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads."

Should the number of unvaccinated persons be disproportionately Black or Hispanic would you still support segregating those individuals?

[hakutaku]

9 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Faced with the data from my previous post do you still support segregating the 'unintelligent anti-vaxxers'?

Certainly, so long as it is accompanied by the necessary outreach programs to make sure it is accessible for all.  Like this:

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/07/22/biden-harris-admin-provides-100-million-to-rural-health-clinics-for-covid-19-vaccination.html

and this:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/black-americans-open-vaccines-outreach-efforts-76993516

4 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

"Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads."

And if you look at the numbers "less likely" means one or two percentage points less likely, and the difference is shrinking.

Edited August 11, 2021 by hakutaku

[KnightofChrist]

2 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Certainly, so long as it is accompanied by the necessary outreach programs to make sure it is accessible for all.  Like this:

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/07/22/biden-harris-admin-provides-100-million-to-rural-health-clinics-for-covid-19-vaccination.html

 

Why would African Americans trust the US government after the Tuskegee Study?

[hakutaku]

1 minute ago, KnightofChrist said:

Why would African Americans trust the US government after the Tuskegee Study?

Ask them.  The surveys found white Americans were more distrustful of the government.

We can just as easily ask "why are white Americans so distrustful of the government despite being the overwhelming beneficiaries of its biases in the past."

But I think we all know the answer.

[KnightofChrist]

Just now, hakutaku said:

Ask them.  The surveys found white Americans were more distrustful of the government.

We can just as easily ask "why are white Americans so distrustful of the government despite being the overwhelming beneficiaries of its biases in the past."

But I think we all know the answer.

Let's not just overlook the fact that even if segregating the unvaccinated means segregating minorities you'd support it. 

Where on the bus should the unvaccinated people sit? What door should the walk through to by groceries? Presuming you'd allow them any of those places.

[hakutaku]

3 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Let's not just overlook the fact that even if segregating the unvaccinated means segregating minorities you'd support it. 

Where did these words in my mouth come from?  Who could have put them there?

Edited August 11, 2021 by hakutaku

[KnightofChrist]

1 minute ago, hakutaku said:

Where did these words in my mouth come from?

When you stated that you would "certainly" support segregating unvaccinated persons even when the data shown showed the number is disproportionately African American.

[hakutaku]

1 minute ago, KnightofChrist said:

When you stated that you would "certainly" support segregating unvaccinated persons even when the data shown showed the number is disproportionately African American.

Disproportionate by a slim margin that is shrinking.  The numbers are never going to be dead even across all categories of people, but they are even enough that trying to pass it of as a deliberate segregation of minorities is grasping at straws.

9 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

disproportionately African American.

Just for a sense of scale:

The gap between whites and minorities when it comes to the question "do you have a drivers license" can exceed 30%.  The gap on "have you gotten a vaccine" is less than 15% in a majority of states.

How are conservatives going to argue that vaccine passports are discriminatory while their photo ID voting laws are not?

 

[KnightofChrist]

15 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

Disproportionate by a slim margin that is shrinking.  The numbers are never going to be dead even across all categories of people, but they are even enough that trying to pass it of as a deliberate segregation of minorities is grasping at straws.

49% of the total white population in the US is vaccinated. Compared to 38% of the total African American population. An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Your position of segregation is unintentionally bigoted and racist. 

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

[hakutaku]

2 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Something is weird in the kff dataset.

If you look at their Fig 1 and Figure 2. in your original link, they have the % of covid doses received by race, vs the race's % of the total population.  As I indicated, those numbers were within 2% of each other on average (e.g. in Alabama, black people make up 27% of the population and received 25% of the vaccines).

It is not clear to me how a 2% gap in vaccines received translates into an 11% gap in vaccinated people, unless white people are more likely to stop at just one dose.

[hakutaku]

40 minutes ago, hakutaku said:

It is not clear to me how a 2% gap in vaccines received translates into an 11% gap in vaccinated people, unless white people are more likely to stop at just one dose.

I still haven't figured out how their dataset generated Fig1 and Fig2, but I have used it to extrapolate current trends forward.   Assuming the current vaccination rates don't change, blacks and whites will reach vaccination parity around November.

[Mercedes]

2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

49% of the total white population in the US is vaccinated. Compared to 38% of the total African American population. An -11% point difference, not what I would call slim. 

Your position of segregation is unintentionally bigoted and racist. 

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

What is the stated reason that African Americans are less vaccinated than white people?  Is it because vaccines aren't being provided to African Americans who desire vaccination?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Mercedes