POLL: "Mary is a Co-Redeemer of humanity"

[linate]

just curious 

[Nihil Obstat]

I think Montfort's True Devotion ought to be required reading for all adult Catholics.

[Peace]

On 7/9/2021 at 2:02 PM, linate said:

just curious 

Hmm. I agreed but can you clarify the exact sense in which you mean that? I mean, in a broad sense we can say that every baptized Christian who goes out and preaches the gospel in one form or anther is a co-redeemer of humanity.

In what sense, for example, would Mary be a co-redeemer and the 12 Apostles would not?

[eustace-scrubb2]

I thought this was covered in the Catechism?

[Guest]

I think of Our Lady as co-redeemer because it was through her Fiat that Jesus, her Son and our Redeemer, is incarnated as a fully human being while remaining Second Person of The Blessed Trinity.

[Mercedes]

Pope Francis says no.

Mary is mother, not ‘co-redeemer’, says Pope

 

[MIKolbe]

Looks like Benedict as well..

What counts in Ratzinger's eyes are the "essentials," the "profound inner level" of understanding, conviction, and commitment. Here may be one of the reasons, a personal as well as a professional one, why he assesses the movement in favor of the dogmatization of Mary's co-redemption with caution. He points out that Christ "builds a profound and new community with us." (Seewald, 306) Redemption is the heart of the "great exchange": what is his became ours, and what is ours becomes his. This "being with" is expressed in exemplary fashion in Mary who is the "prototype of the Church," and so to speak, "the Church in person." It must not lead us "to forget the 'first' of Christ: . . . Mary, too, is everything that she is through him." (Seewald, 306) Ratzinger finds that the expression "co-redemptrix" would obscure this absolute origin in Christ, and departs to "too great extent from the language of Scripture and Fathers." The continuity of language with Scripture and Fathers is essential for matters of faith. It would be improper, according to Ratzinger, to "simply manipulate language." He sees in the movement promoting Mary's co-redemption a "correct intention" being expressed in the wrong way. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith holds that "what is signified by this (scil. 'co-redemptrix') is already better expressed in other titles of Mary." And so his answer to the request is summarized in the following sentence: "I do not think there will be any compliance with this demand, which in the meantime is being supported by several million people, within the foreseeable future." (Seewald, 306)

[eustace-scrubb2]

1 hour ago, MIKolbe said:

Looks like Benedict as well..

What counts in Ratzinger's eyes are the "essentials," the "profound inner level" of understanding, conviction, and commitment. Here may be one of the reasons, a personal as well as a professional one, why he assesses the movement in favor of the dogmatization of Mary's co-redemption with caution. He points out that Christ "builds a profound and new community with us." (Seewald, 306) Redemption is the heart of the "great exchange": what is his became ours, and what is ours becomes his. This "being with" is expressed in exemplary fashion in Mary who is the "prototype of the Church," and so to speak, "the Church in person." It must not lead us "to forget the 'first' of Christ: . . . Mary, too, is everything that she is through him." (Seewald, 306) Ratzinger finds that the expression "co-redemptrix" would obscure this absolute origin in Christ, and departs to "too great extent from the language of Scripture and Fathers." The continuity of language with Scripture and Fathers is essential for matters of faith. It would be improper, according to Ratzinger, to "simply manipulate language." He sees in the movement promoting Mary's co-redemption a "correct intention" being expressed in the wrong way. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith holds that "what is signified by this (scil. 'co-redemptrix') is already better expressed in other titles of Mary." And so his answer to the request is summarized in the following sentence: "I do not think there will be any compliance with this demand, which in the meantime is being supported by several million people, within the foreseeable future." (Seewald, 306)

That makes a lot of sense.

[Guest]

I am not schooled in complex Catholic thinking.  Rather, a long way indeed from it.  As a simple ordinary everyday Catholic, which I am, I find it harder to get my head around "Mother of God" than Mary as co-redeemer.  I must confess, I also find it difficult to get my head around that all Grace must come through Mary.

Would we have had Jesus as our redeemer if Mary had declined the messenger angel, Gabriel, the request from The Father?  I think that we would still have had Jesus somehow or other.  But in my mind, I do remain grateful abundantly that Mary said her Fiat and so Jesus was incarnated as fully human and our redeemer.   In my simple brain anyway, that does not detract in any way that Jesus gave us His mother as our own mother.

Should Mary as co  redeemer be a doctrine?  In my mind, that is immaterial.  It does not matter to me whether it is a doctrine or not - not for my personal spirituality anyway.  Catholicism, The Church, has become and for quite some time, so complex in theological thought and presentation to the Universal Church that this is a strong reason, to my limited experience of other Catholics' thinking, that perhaps even many Catholics have decided that they will practise their own form of Catholicism and just ignore what The Church is on about............simply because they cannot at all understand what She is "on about" and in many instances to them.  I must admit that I am so inclined too, although if The Church commands obedience in Faith or Morals, I will obey in such an instance.  Many will not.

If The Church and the world is going south, the first question to ask must be to our own selves if we are looking for the reason, the blame:

Quote

 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot."  (Matthew Chapter 5)

 

[Guest]

Our Lady has many titles.  Mary is our mother - does that mean that she cannot be our co-redeemer?  Of course she can still have both titles............. just as Our Lady of Lourdes does not mean that she cannot be Our Lady of Fatima.