Lenton Retreat Based On Baptist Book

[Mateo el Feo]

Are you talking about the [url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310205719/103-1351368-4072668?v=glance"]Purpose Driven® Life (link)[/url] by Rick Warren?

One of my non-Denom protestant friends went through the book with his church.

I haven't read it, but my secondary info (the positive and negative book reviews) make me think that it's not for me. Also, there is:
[list]
[*]Purpose-Driven® Life Scripture Keeper Plus With Cards
[*]Daily Inspiration for the Purpose Driven® Life
[*]Meditations on the Purpose Driven® Life
[*]The Purpose-Driven® Life Deluxe Journal
[*]The Purpose-Driven® Life: 40 Days of Purpose Sermon Series
[*]Purpose-Driven® Life Patch Book & Bible Cover
[/list]
I'm waiting for the Purpose-Driven® bath robe and Purpose-Driven® marshmellow cereal. In other words, it sure seems like someone's got a marketing campaign and is trying to cash in on it.

But, I'm a cynic...

[ladybug]

The book has 550 reviews at amazon!

[url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0310205719/qid=1089846204/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-1997763-3501550?v=glance&s=books&n=507846"]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846[/url]

[ladybug]

Here are some reviews I found by catholics:


My priest recommends this book, May 30, 2004
Reviewer: A reader from NJ, USA
I am a catholic and while attending Sunday Mass this morning I was happy to hear our Priest highly recommend this great book by Rick Warren. Fr. David went on to say that most people miss the meaning which is to serve and love God. As the subtitle clearly states; "What on Earth Am I Here For?"

This great book helped me find my purpose so much so that I went out to Costco today and bought a dozen copies that I will be giving out as accessory gifts to graduations and weddings.

Great book. Highly recommended.

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Reviewer: A reader from O'Fallon, Missouri United States
I would recomend this book to everyone! I am Catholic, so there are several things in the book that I don't agree with, theologically. But it has changed the way that I view my life, and how I should live my life. It discusses specific principles that every Christian should live by. I have learned that life is not about me, it is about helping God and others. Life is about love, and how to share it, even if others aren't. This book has taught me how important forgivness is, and how healing it can be! If you read this book in it's entirety, and apply it to your life, it will change your life forever. I plan on reading this book over and over again. I would recomend this book to anyone who wants God to be the leader of his/her life.

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Reviewer: Thomas Kelly from Appleton, Wisconsin
This book stirred my mind, heart and soul. It transformed my life, changing the way I talk with God, and changing the ways I spend my money and my time. It helped me to see opportunities to practice and learn true Christian love in what I saw previously only as annoying and irritating people. As a Catholic Christian, I was familiar with so much of the teachings; still they were presented in a new and cohesive way that gave the familiar a renewed sense of importance and urgency--that instilled a restlessness to do more. My wife and I read it together at five am daily so that we could discuss it before our three young sons woke up. It drew us closer to each other, too. (I'll never forget how, after we'd been reading the book, my wife's mom died. Finding her in tears of grief one night, my 6-year-old wote her a note with a picture of a heart with a crying face. On it, he had written: "Pleez dont cry. Loving spirts will live forever.") The popularity of books like this and movies like The Passion suggest (to me anyway) some kind of mass-scale renewal. If you want to be more open to God's presence in all that you do, this book is worth reading. The real key is not so much being stirred by the message, but rather in doing what is so clearly and practically laid out.

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Reviewer: A reader from West St. Paul, MN USA
This theology is too incomplete. It overemphasizes the sugary side, and ignores suffering and redemption and the meritorious acts of a Christian. Unfortunately there is a real gulf between Catholicism and much of Protestantism. Yes folks, there really is a purgatory. Scripturally and through revelation of the saints, God makes this manifest enough. And given such a vital premise, much of the issues we struggle with can be explained. Jesus saved us by his death on the cross, but that does not promise us a free ticket to heaven. It very well keeps us from eternal damnation, however.

[ladybug]

You know, MOST of my Catholic friends and family have bought Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone for their kids. People are obsessed with Harry Potter. St. Anthony's Messenger Press raves about Harry Potter.

I do not let my children read Harry Potter. Witchcraft is obviously condemned in the bible.

YET, people complain that we cannot read a generic christian book just because it was written by a baptist?

Don't you find that strange?

Also, I have heard that this Purpose Driven Life book has sold MORE than Harry Potter. So, why are we not hearing this in the media? I have not heard this book mentioned once on the news. This should be a big deal, something selling more than Harry Potter.

Also, we have scholastic book fairs in the church and sell Harry Potter stuff, and books about the Goddess and Gaia, but no protestant books. We had a halloween party at church, and they handed out Harry Potter glasses to the children.

I have catholic friends who are obsessed with elves and fairies, pokemon and other magic based things, but HATE protestants. I don't get that.

So, I guess I don't think this book is so bad compared to other things my fellow catholics are reading.

And they are part of our christian family, and we need to read what each other is writing AT LEAST to understand each other better.

Why waste our reading time on Harry Potter?

[cmotherofpirl]

Because Harry Potter teaches that good overcomes evil, but one must must fight hard to do so. It teaches that evil triumphs if good people do nothing. It teaches love, honor, and friendship, and bad things do happen to good people.

Its FANTASY!

Did you even read the books or see the movies?

Here is a review of the first movie:

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone -- Vividly imaginative, director Chris Columbus' fine adaptation of J.K. Rowling's popular children's novel "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" (Warner Bros.) is likely to please the book's many fans as well as the uninitiated moviegoers.

British author Rowling captured the imagination of millions of kids -- and adults alike -- with her amazing stories about Harry Potter, an orphan who discovers he is a wizard. Columbus' fantasy film about magic, villainy and friendship adheres pretty closely to Rowling's words. And where a few narrative points have been dropped, beguiling visual details and special effects makeup for the loss. However the film overreaches in including so much, and a stronger editing hand should have been used to trim the nearly two-and-a-half hour film.

For the first ten years of his life, Harry (Daniel Radcliffe) has lived in a cupboard under the stairs in the house of his awful aunt and uncle. But on his 11th birthday, he receives a mysterious letter from an enormous hulk of a man, Hagrid (Robbie Coltrane), inviting him to study at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Harry, Hagrid explains, is a wizard whose parents, sorcerers themselves, were murdered by an evil wizard named Voldemort. Unable to eliminate Harry, Voldemort etched the distinctive lightening bolt scar on Harry's forehead, making Harry known throughout the wizard land as "the boy who lived." Much to his surprise, Harry discovers that there are actually two worlds: the dreary world of the Muggles (non-magic folk) where he's been growing up, while the other, a realm of magic and fantasy, is where his destiny lies.

At Hogwarts, Harry learns to fly on a broom stick, cast spells, and create potions. But more importantly, and for the first time in his life, Harry makes friends. Copper-topped Ron (Rupert Grint), a third-generation Hogwarts student, and know-it-all bookworm, Hermione (Emma Watson), join Harry on his amazing adventures. The three first-year students chance upon one of Hogwarts' best kept secret: the sorcerer's stone. Guarded by a three-headed dog and many powerful spells and incantations, this powerful jewel gives its possessor the elixir for ever-lasting life. And Harry is sure that the dreadful Voldemort is after the stone, which means he has to stop him. Luckily Harry is gifted with an invisibility cloak.

The film's casting is superb. Maggie Smith blends strictness and reserved enthusiasm to near perfection as headmistress Professor McGonagall. As headmaster Albus Dumbledore, Richard Harris' role is small but memorable. Radcliffe, a virtually unknown actor who landed the plum role, mugs a bit more than needed, especially with his surprised looks and ear-to-ear grin, but is endearing nonetheless. Watson's Hermione, though she is supposed to be a goody-two-shoes, is a tad too unlikable. But the magic wand goes to Alan Rickman. What his Professor Severus Snape lacks in character development, Rickman makes up for with his creepy and intimidating screen presence. Rounding out the cast is the always good Ian Hart as stuttering Professor Quirrell.

The costuming and special effects, though not especially innovative, are wondrous just the same. Hogwarts Academy is first seen at night, an immense castle lit by a million little lights and surrounded by dark waters. In the huge cathedral-ceilinged hall where the student body gathers for celebrations, lit candles float in the air as sumptuous feasts magically appear. And the strictly-business goblins who run Gringotts Bank are fiendish-looking things with long pointy noses, huge flapping ears and warts and bumps all over.

Disappointingly, some of the clever nuances from the book don't come through in the film. Harry's miserable home life, which was vibrantly written, is forgettable here. Had it been better developed, Harry's final line about Hogwarts being his real home would have resonated more. The downplaying of Harry's schoolboy competition with a fellow classmate is a missed opportunity for younger audience members to relate to a common schoolboy situation.

Parents concerned about the film's sorcery elements should know that it is unlikely to pose any threat to Catholic beliefs. "Harry Potter" is so obviously innocuous fantasy that its fiction is easily distinguishable from real life. Harry uses his "magical powers" for good to fight evil. Parents and children can enjoy this fetching tale in the same spirit of the time-honored tradition of sorcery in Eastern Literature, such as the magical figure of Merlin in the Arthurian legend. And the film ends with a very upbeat, positive message about sacrificial love. Older children should be able to handle it, although it is too long and intense for younger ones.

For those who didn't read the book, the details get a little sketchy at the end. But no matter, it is still an enjoyable mixture of fantasy and comedy. For those who did read it, part of the fun is in guessing what was left out and what stayed in.

Ultimately, despite its shortcomings, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" is a magical adventure few would want to miss.

Due to some menacing situations and scary images with an instance of crass language, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops classification is A-II -- adults and adolescents. The Motion Picture Association of America rating is PG -- parental guidance suggested.




There is no reason for catholics to have anything to do with worshipping false gods [Gaia or goddess carp] but there is nothing wrong with good fiction.

If your church is selling that stuff contact your bishop or the Papal Nuncio.

Edited July 15, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[homeschoolmom]

My husband and I read The Purpose Driven Life last fall at our Baptist church... shortly after completing it, we starting looking into Catholicism... Turns out, our new parish read the book during Lent. It's not a book of theology... it's more... a... well... like a kick in the pants... I agree that the "brand name" of it is a turn off... but it was still a good read.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote][u]I can't really find anything 'heretical' in it[/u]. It's pretty basic Christianity. [u]They just don't go into the sacraments and stuff[/u]. It's a 40 day book about finding the purpose of your life according to God's plan. All of the church's in our area are doing it together. There are some quotes of Catholic saints in it, and also quotes of protestants. But altogether it's a pretty good book. The only problem I see is it's black or white, heaven or hell, and no discussion of purgatory. [/quote]

The book is heretical because it excludes [b]crucial [/b]teachings of Christ's Church such as the Sacraments and Purgatory. When a priest excludes any one word from the Mass, no matter how small, it is considered abuse by the Vatican! This book my friend, is heresy. May God Bless!

[cmotherofpirl]

Nope.

Leaving info out of a general book on basic christianity is not heresy. To be a heretic you first must know the Truth, then deny it. Simply not covering a topic is not a crime.

This is not a case of a catechism or a Mass where an omission might be critical, but simply light spiritual reading.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 01:08 AM'] Nope.

Leaving info out of a general book on basic christianity is not heresy. To be a heretic you first must know the Truth, then deny it. Simply not covering a topic is not a crime.

This is not a case of a catechism or a Mass where an omission might be critical, but simply light spiritual reading. [/quote]
I'm right.

Rick Warren, the author of this book, clearly is aware of some Truth and denies it which makes him some what heretical. The book he writes includes his heretical writings and quotes from other Truth-knowing/denying Protestants. The fact is they all know the Truth yet deny it. That is the definition of heresy. If a heretic writes a book on Christian doctrine, the book is heretical.

[RemnantRules]

what i believe is that there are SOOO MANY OTHER GREAT books that they could have chosen, i don't think they should have chosen that book, if it's trying to base it's self on not ALL fact, truth, and theology of the one true church then what leg does it have to stand on???

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Jul 15 2004, 03:24 AM'] I'm right.

Rick Warren, the author of this book, clearly is aware of some Truth and denies it which makes him some what heretical. The book he writes includes his heretical writings and quotes from other Truth-knowing/denying Protestants. The fact is they all know the Truth yet deny it. That is the definition of heresy. If a heretic writes a book on Christian doctrine, the book is heretical. [/quote]
A heretic is someone who knows the truth and denies it.

How would you know how much he knows?

Its still a stupid book for catholics to read in Lent.

Edited July 15, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Guest JeffCR07]

cmom is right

[p0lar_bear]

I haven't read the book, so this is a general comment...

It is possible for a book by a non-Catholic to be useful and upbuilding spiritual reading. I've heard "Mere Christianity" recommended by dozens of Catholics, yet it was written by a non-Catholic.

The book will obviously be lacking in various elements (ecclesiology, sacraments, etc). However, it may still be a good book, for what it is.

That said, I think there are a great number of better choices for a lenten reading series. There is such a wealth of spiritual literature from the saints that it seems unlikely that there were no Catholic books that could serve the needs of the parish.

[Guest JeffCR07]

allow me to illustrate the discussion with an example:

A Protestant says "God is love."

He is correct.

A heretic, who absolutely understands the doctrine of Immaculate Conception with a fully formed conscience, but still denies, says "God is love."

He is correct.

Now, with regards the "sin of omission," here is where I see people straying from being catholic into being merely anti-protestant.

The argument that we should not read a book, merely because it was written by a Protestant and so does not contain some articles of our faith is flawed on multiple accounts.

1.) No book, to the best of my knowledge (aside from the catechism) contains every article of catholic dogma. It is not a "sin of omission" if a book doesn't have everything, it just isn't a thorough book.

2.) One [i]can[/i] sin by omission when writing a book if, for example, a protestant who fully understands the Church's teachings on an issue of dogma and has a fully formed conscience, intentionally refuses to address a certain issue.

3.) One does not sin if they are only indirectly connected to the sin of another.

(Example: If Coke utilizes child labor for the production of 2% of all Coke's worldwide, I do not sin if I am thirsty and buy a coke, because I am too far removed from the sin.)

Thus, you do not sin by the omission of others, only by your own omissions.

Conclusion: It is fine to read a book written by a Protestant, insofar as it does not contain blatant heresy, but rather merely does not address particular articles of catholic dogma. [i]Mere Christianity[/i] is a wonderful example. I would also like to point out that, if a person has a fully formed conscience and is deeply rooted in an orthodox faith, it is permissible to even read heretical things under certain conditions (it is ok for a fully formed, orthodox catholic to read the "Gnostic Gospels" in order to refute such a heresy).

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 15 2004, 07:26 AM'] A heretic is someone who knows the truth and denies it.

How would you know how much he knows?

Its still a stupid book for catholics to  read in Lent. [/quote]
I know how much he knows, because he explains his personal beliefs in his books. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in Purgatory, yet he denies that it exists. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in the Immaculate Conception, yet he denies that it ever happened. He knows of the Roman Catholic Church's belief in salvation by faith+works, yet he denies that it is true. Cmom, if heresy consists of someone who knows the Truth but denies it, then this is a case of heresy. Although, we do agree that the book indeed is stupid to read during Lent, for there are many other books to disect during that liturgical season.

Edited July 15, 2004 by conservativecatholic