Mass In Zambia With No Shoes And Dancing

[RandomProddy]

"I danced in the morning when the world was begun...."

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 10 2004, 02:52 AM']

why doesnt it belong? why is it ok for africans to dance but not americans? [/quote]
[quote]Liturgy (leitourgia) is a Greek composite word meaning originally a public duty, a service to the state undertaken by a citizen. Its elements are leitos (from leos = laos, people) meaning public, and ergo (obsolete in the present stem, used in future erxo, etc.), to do. From this we have leitourgos, "a man who performs a public duty"...[/quote]

Mass is a public communal worship. It’s not a group of individuals doing their own thing but a family getting together to do God’s work on earth. In a family there is a tradition of what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. In the Latin rite tradition dance has been deemed inappropriate. The Latin rite stresses awe and reverence to the glory of God. In the Latin rite dance does not communicate awe and reverence. In other rites this may not be the case.

Let me give you an analogy. It would be like in a basketball game where the coach says that we are going to play man to man. But I like zone better than man to man. So I ignore what the coach says and play zone. What then happens is chaos. Instead of the team working together towards the one goal you have a bunch of individuals doing their own thing.

Or it would be like going to Japan and walking in a house without taking your shoes off. To not follow the tradition of a given culture is disrespectful. So when in Rome do like the Romans.

Now if you want to get some people to dance and make your dance a type of prayer outside the Latin Liturgy of the Mass, more power to you. God bless

Edited July 10, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[Quietfire]

I didnt see anything in that article to suggest outright dancing, in the sense of just dancing.

There was dance to introducing the hosts (gifts) and such, and that is not abuse. This is allowed in some countries. In the Latin Rite there is no place for dance. I am sure that even if this particular parish is of Latin Rite, the dance is still allowed because it is in Zambia.

Please understand that in some countries this is perfectly acceptable, as long it is understood it isnt a 'show'.
Read that article again. The women were dancing at specific times for specific reasons.
They werent dancing just to show their dancing skills. Or to show off, or to put on a great show for guests. (Although these guest did enjoy it, remember it is something that we dont normally see, and therefore, different.)

There are differences.
Like I said, I have seen people moved to raise their hands during Mass, but it isnt overdone. It isnt obvious, like in some Non-Catholic services.

Peace.

Edited July 10, 2004 by Quietfire

[M.SIGGA]

duh ... just go to a charismatic parish.

[catholicguy]

Someone wrote earlier that the Church is universal because it adapts to the culture of each region. This is not true and has not been taught by the Church in any form, not even in a catechism. The Church is universal because it is for all people of all nations of all races. This does not mean that the Church adapts to fit each of these individual places, or otherwise the mark of the Church, oneness, would be lost. The Church is one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. The Church is one, as the Catholic Encyclopedia says, because its members:
1. Are all united under one government
2. All profess the same faith
[b]3. All join in a common worship[/b]
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm[/url] (it is hard to find, search--ctrl+F--"The Church is One because")

We see that common worship is a central reason for unity in the Church. Throughout history it has been seen that the Church has brought her beautiful form of worship to all peoples. Savages, Indians, and others foreign to European thought and custom have been perplexed by the Mass of the Latin Rite for centuries by the holy missionaries of the Church (and converted by it). This is simply another case of liturgical indifference and lack of unity in the Church which all seem to be common aspects of the modern Church (this is essentially the philosophy of Roberto de Nobili the 17 Centurty "Jesuit" turned Brahmin).

[catholicguy]

To read more about the erroneous actions of the de Nobili and his companions, see Catholic Encyclopedia.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09558b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09558b.htm[/url]

[pionono]

[quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jul 10 2004, 05:17 AM']

Or it would be like going to Japan and walking in a house without taking your shoes off. [/quote]
I did this once in Korea. I walked into the house of a priest. Very embarassing.

[pionono]

How's this for inculturation and dance:

[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/frihaw.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/frihaw.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/satyng/MVC-162S.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/satyng/MVC-162S.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/satyng/youngadult7.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/satyng/youngadult7.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/satcontem.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/satcontem.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/nige/MVC-079S.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/nige/MVC-079S.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/nige.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/nige.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/sathis/MVC-115S.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/sathis/MVC-115S.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2004/sathis.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2004/sathis.htm[/url]

Mahoney's great isn't he? Such profound vision...

[pionono]

Here's more wonderful inculteration and liturgical dance:

[url="http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/friblklit.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/friblklit.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/healing.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/healing.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/sat/MVC-114S.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/sat/MVC-114S.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/closing/b3020033.htm"]http://www.recongress.org/2003/pix/closing/b3020033.htm[/url]

I'm tearing up that is so beautiful.

[cmotherofpirl]

We however were not talking about liturgical dancing in the continental US which is an abuse. We are talking about Hawaii, Africa, Korea, Japan etc.

So most of your pictures are irrelevant to this discussion.

[pionono]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 10 2004, 10:55 PM'] We however were not talking about liturgical dancing in the continental US which is an abuse. We are talking about Hawaii, Africa, Korea, Japan etc.

So most of your pictures are irrelevant to this discussion. [/quote]
Except that they had liturgies from most of those places for people from those places. All with the permission of the gloriously reigning Cardinal Mahoney.

[cmotherofpirl]

Still since it was done here it was an abuse.

[pionono]

So it is not a matter of who the Mass is for but on what chunk of land it is said on?? That makes no sense.

[littleflower+JMJ]

its quite simple,


when your in mass,

[b]in the presence of God, Body Blood Soul Divinity,[/b]

[u]you should be on your knees. [/u]



period.

[pionono]

[quote name='littleflower' date='JMJ+Jul 10 2004, 11:39 PM'] its quite simple,


when your in mass, in the presence of God, Body Blood Soul Divinity,


you should be on your knees.



period. [/quote]
Agreed!!!