Are Catholics Born Again?

[Guest]

Great post Dave.
It was amazing the hostility you got after making your point.
Godbless.

[Colin]

Dave askes an excellent question, and also proposes an excellent means of determining the correct answer - what is baptism according to the Bible. The question clearly can be usefully sub-divided, (1) How are we saved? (2) What does baptism represent? and (3) Who, therefore, are the proper subjects of baptism?

(1) So, how does the Bible say we are saved?? Ephesians 2:8, we are saved by grace through faith. Romans 4:16, "it is of faith", in John 6:29, Jesus says "this is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent." Good old John 3:16, whoever believes on him..., Acts 10:43, "who ever believes on him", Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, Romans 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
1 John 5:1, everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
The last verse is particularly relevant to who is born again - the Apostle John's answer is clear - everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ.

(2) If we look at Romans 6, the symbolism of baptism is plain - it is an outward representation of the spiritual truth that has happened to the person being baptised. Firstly, they have died to self, shown by going under the water, there, united with the risen Jesus, they are raised again to new life, shown in their emerging victorious from the waters. (note also 1Pe 3:21 "which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,")

(3) If baptism then represents our new birth, our being born again, it represents our salvation. Hence Peter in Acts 2:38, Repent and be baptized, Acts 2:41, those who gladly recieved his word were baptized, Acts 8:12, but when they believed the preaching of the Gospel... they were baptized, Acts 18:8, many of the Corinthians believed and were baptized., etc Now, according to the biblical witness, has a baby been saved? Has the baby repented of his sins? (repent and be baptized), has the baby believed in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead? Has the baby asked to be baptized? (most babies cry when being baptized, they neither asked for it nor wanted it).

So, if you baptize a baby, you are preaching a salvation, not of works, not of faith, but of ritual! Jesus says we must believe on him to be saved, a baby does not/cannot believe, therefore it is not a fit candidate for baptism. To baptize a baby is to preach a means of salvation totally at odds with the Biblical witness.

Hope this helps
God bless, Aussi

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Yes,Yes,Yes...every eucharist, born again, every confession, everytime we hear or read the gospel, everytime we profess our faith, everytime we pray for others or for our own increase in virtue, everytime we acknowledge our sinfulness, everytime we say peace be with you to a brother or sister, everytime we look at the sunset or a branch on a tree or the stars and are filled with wonder and awe and say to the lord , "you are amazing", every marriage, every little sacrifice with love....and much much more.every grace before meals...lots victory abounds , born again is victorious faith, alleluia

Edited May 14, 2009 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye