Craftygrl06 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hello everyone, Can i just say that i love this board. Throughout my conversion it was a blessing to be able to get on here and get reeeliable information from people from every backround, so... THANKS! Anyways here's my question: As Catholics are we supposed to not have meat EVERY friday or just the fridays durring Lent. I know people who do it all year round and i know people who only do it durring Lent. Are we supposed to do it all year or are those people just going above and beyond? thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I think that we are supposed to make a sacrifice (a self imposed penance) every Friday all year round and that the church still suggests abstaining from meat... however, I believe it is only an obligation during Lent. But there should be another penance... I could be totally wrong, but that's what I was told... I have no doubt that I will be corrected... edit: Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. So this makes me wonder... Giving up sodas is a way bigger sacrifice for me... should I do that rather than meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Catherine Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 You beat me to it HSmom. I was just going to post that Can 1251. I didn't know this, I guess we will have to start abstaining from meat on Fridays. Thanks Craftygrl06 for this post because I am sure there are a lot of people who do not realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I've read something else on this ... let me find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [url="http://www.ncregister.com/Register_News/060103_3.htm"]Here's an article from the National Catholic Register[/url] that is on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sojourner, There is a significant problem with that article. It quotes from the 1983 Code of Canon Law, but the quotes from a 1966 resolution by the Conference of Bishops. The Code of Canon Law is the one which is binding. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Ooo, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Canon Law--> Book IV--> Part III--> Title II--> Chapter II CHAPTER II : DAYS OF PENANCE Can. 1249 All Christ's faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe. [b]Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are [i]each Friday of the whole year[/i] and the season of Lent. [/b] Can. 1251 [b]Abstinence from meat[/b], or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, [i][b]is to be observed on all Fridays[/b][/i], unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Can. 1252 [u]The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year.[/u] The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance. As far as I know for fact, no other food has been prescribed by the Bishops to replace meat. Even if such a food were prescribed, why would we want to follow that rather than meat? It is clear that giving up meat is a pain and is difficult based upon how many try to get around it or just merely omit it outright. Is that not the purpose of penance? Is not penance a suffering for God? Meat is something we all enjoy very much. Can we find anything that would be a better penance for Fridays? Even if we gave up something that would be even harder for us than meat, it would be virtuous to give up meat also. This tradition has been in the Church for ages. As Catholics we ought to respect and follow tradition, even if it were not required. Unlike protestant and other religions, we have a 2000 year history full of holy traditions from men of all ages in the Church. I cannot think of a reason why we would want to omit such a practice if we are truly seeking to grow in virtue and decrease our time in Purgatory (if by the mercy of God we can even make it to Purgatory). If we consider that the temporal pains of Purgatory are the same as that of Hell (the same fire), then we should all the more hope to avoid Purgatory at all costs (c.f. Summa and Baltimore Catechism--I will get the exact quotes, if anyone wants them). God bless. Edited July 9, 2004 by CatholicCrusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Okay, so I've got the no meat part. Fish doesn't count as meat, though, right? Anyone know why? And does chicken count? Eggs? I'm not being facetious; I really don't know. THANKS! MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Jul 9 2004, 10:45 AM'] It is clear that giving up meat is a pain and is difficult based upon how many try to get around it or just merely omit it outright. Is that not the purpose of penance? Is not penance a suffering for God? Meat is something we all enjoy very much. Can we find anything that would be a better penance for Fridays? Even if we gave up something that would be even harder for us than meat, it would be virtuous to give up meat also. [/quote] Yeah, for me giving up meat is really not that big a deal. Yesterday, for example -- a non-Friday -- I had granola for breakfast, a (meatless) salad for lunch, and mac and coagulated milk for dinner. Today (which happens to be a Friday) my diet would likely be similar anyway. My point is that giving up meat for me is not much of a penance. Although I am not a vegetarian, red meat isn't a staple of my diet, and while poultry probably is, eating fish is no hardship for me. I love salmon, actually, and choose to eat it fairly regularly. Doesn't a penance have to be something that's [i]difficult [/i]for us to do? If I don't really enjoy eating meat all that much, and don't often eat it anyway -- I have trouble seeing that this inspires any sort of virtue. Now coagulated milk ... if I were to give up coagulated milk that would be a good penance. Or baked goods. What I generally do is fast on Friday lunch, and eat a very light breakfast and supper. The hunger for me serves as a deeper reminder of the fact that I'm engaging in penance than does the not eating meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drforjc Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [quote]1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more precisely the ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety. [/quote] Canon 1253 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Mickey's Girl, Fish doesn't count, chicken does. Sojourner, The point of the abstinence is two-fold, one as a penance, two as a discipline. When I have a lunch meeting on Friday and get ready to order the bacon cheeseburger (mmm... bacon!) I have to stop and think and then order a salad, or fish. Is it a difficulty? No. It is, however, a discipline. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [quote name='PedroX' date='Jul 9 2004, 10:19 AM'] Sojourner, There is a significant problem with that article. It quotes from the 1983 Code of Canon Law, but the quotes from a 1966 resolution by the Conference of Bishops. The Code of Canon Law is the one which is binding. peace... [/quote] OK, I have a question about this, upon further reflection. If the Bishops in 1966 had this resolution, and the 1983 Code of Canon Law allows for such resolutions, how can the 1983 Code nullify the 1966 resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sojourner, Just have time for a few quick points 1) The Code of Canon Law is the law of the Universal Church. All local customs must conform to it, not the other way around. 2) The code specifies that while the National Conference of Bishops can substitute an act of penance for the abstinence on Fridays, the Conference must substitute something. In other words the 1966 statement does not rise to the level mandated by the Code. 3) The later law always overides the older law, unless otherwise specified. I suspec the 1966 statement was a product of the looseness of the times. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drforjc Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [url="http://www.usccb.org/norms/12521253.htm"]Bishops Conference[/url] [url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q036.htm"]James Akins' site[/url] Please see these sites. Both these as well as EWTN Q&A say that Fridays outside of Lent have been modified by the US bishops conference per canon 1253. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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