dairygirl4u2c Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) I figure the debate table is the best place to bring this. CatholicCrusader [quote]haha, I'm sorry...I COMPLTELY missed the part where I judged A PERSON. It's not a sin whatsoever to be critical of a "movement" (e.g. I am highly opposed to the heresies of the "charismatic" movement trying to infiltrate and destroy the Church). There is no sin in that; in fact, in being critical, I am merely pointing out flaws in a movement, ideology, etc. that poses itself as "Catholic," yet it is completely opposed necessarily in its nature to the Faith. By the way, I am sick of being accused of things that 1) I do not do 2) the accuser does not even know the definition of. Please learn or know what you are saying before you actually say it... God bless. [/quote] dUst [quote]Okay. I've suspended CatholicCrusader for two weeks because of his continued lack of charity. [/quote] How is CatholicCrusader's "lack of charity"/way of presenting himself any different than say ironmonk's? Edited July 9, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 There is no lack of charity (LOC) on CC's part. [b]I say that there is a lack of sense on other's part.[/b] It's charity to correct. Sometimes correction calls for bluntness and simplicity. CC has a right to voice his frustrations with those that have no sense. I too have had a few people take one or two lines only to distort what I have posted, and ignore everything else that I wrote in the very same post. It's getting ridiculous with the false accusations of "lack of charity" on this board. Many times someone claims "lack of charity" they are judging the person's heart... unless there is juvenile insults such as calling someone things like "dumb", "stupid", etc... People, it's time to grow up. <--- some may say LOC - I say no, it's simple and to the point - It's full of charity, charity DEMANDS correction! According to the Church, maybe some don't like the way, but get over it. There are much bigger things in the world then people getting upset because people talk and think differently than they want them to. I have found that "lack of charity" that some cry on this board can easily be translated to... "the truth hurts and I don't want to hear it". Sometimes, the truth hurts... it is charity that demands us to speak the truth. God Bless. ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Thanks ironmonk. I do think you are less than charitable at times and in fact I am positive I could go through your posts and find some. If I am way off so be it. I agree with you that you simply state things for the most part. And for the most part people are just hurt by the truth. Either way, I would still like to see how his posts are different than ironmonks. Edited July 9, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Well I don't think that I am uncharitable regularly (I may sometimes say something uncharitable), but basically just because I "call a spade a spade" is what causes people to get "offended," I think. God bless. I think the suspension was a culmination from the "ought heretics to be tolerated" debate (from which I took St. Thomas Aquinas' standpoint that if murders are put to death for merely killing the body, all the more should heretics who kill the soul be put to death). The specific group, I think, in discussion was the Jews. Edited July 9, 2004 by CatholicCrusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Just to add to what has been said, I think it is clear that the problem is not a lack of charity on the part of CatholicCrusader. Rather, it is an emotional problem on behalf of those who are being corrected or being opposed by CatholicCrusader. The problem with many debates is that one of the parties involved cannot set his emotions aside in order to properly engage in an intellectual discussion and after becoming 'offended' no longer is able to make logical arguments because he cannot control his passions. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [quote]It's charity to correct. [/quote] [quote]It's full of charity, charity DEMANDS correction! [/quote] Oh, I agree...but we mustn't forget to examine our own hearts before we correct others (in other words, take the board out of one's own eye before going after the speck in another's). (Please know that I'm not speaking to any specific person here; just general reflections on the idea of lack of charity/correction.) A good rule of thumb to follow is to ask oneself (and be prepared to answer honestly): am I getting [b]satisfaction [/b]out of "correcting" this person? Is it more about "being right" than about helping that person grow closer to Christ? Because if it is, then perhaps one isn't the right person to be doing the correcting at that time. Sure, the truth is the truth. But Jesus spoke the truth in different ways, depending on who he was talking to and what their heart situation was. To the Pharisees, he was pretty harsh. To sinners, he was kinder, without compromising the truth about their sin. For Jesus, it was all about the spiritual state of the other person. If we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, then we should be prepared to take correction if we're ready to give it out. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 If you have a question or problem with dUst's decisions, have the courtesy to contact him privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Polar Bear, I actually have contacted him privately--three times--but I have received no response whatsoever to say nothing of an explanation for his decisions. I should note that I did not initiate this thread and that my many private responses to dUst have been made concerning warnings which I have received (unjustly by my judgment) and have questioned the prudence and decisions made regarding my warning level. I cited at least one Saint about liberty of belief in those things which are not taught by the Church, e.g., the belief in Limbo or other speculative theology which has firm a grounding in logic. As Saint Augustine says: "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity." God bless. Edited July 9, 2004 by amarkich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Jul 9 2004, 01:25 PM'] Oh, I agree...but we mustn't forget to examine our own hearts before we correct others (in other words, take the board out of one's own eye before going after the speck in another's). (Please know that I'm not speaking to any specific person here; just general reflections on the idea of lack of charity/correction.) A good rule of thumb to follow is to ask oneself (and be prepared to answer honestly): am I getting [b]satisfaction [/b]out of "correcting" this person? Is it more about "being right" than about helping that person grow closer to Christ? Because if it is, then perhaps one isn't the right person to be doing the correcting at that time. Sure, the truth is the truth. But Jesus spoke the truth in different ways, depending on who he was talking to and what their heart situation was. To the Pharisees, he was pretty harsh. To sinners, he was kinder, without compromising the truth about their sin. For Jesus, it was all about the spiritual state of the other person. If we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, then we should be prepared to take correction if we're ready to give it out. MG [/quote] You forgot to mention that to those who professed the faith wrongly and hypocritically were delt with firm and to the point by Christ... i.e. the reaction at the Temple... which should also tell other what reverence should be in the Mass. I stand by what the Church teaches. I defend her. I will continue to defend her until someone stops preaching wrong, stops replying, I don't have time, or it's like throwing pearls among swine. The Church is always right. When I'm corrected by her, I change for the Christ. That is what it means to be Christian. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) I was not trying to take any kind of shot at dUst. I was speaking in general about what usually happens when people say someone is uncharitable when, in fact, he is often not. Edited July 9, 2004 by amarkich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I am sorry is someone saw anything I said as taking a shot at dUst. I already told him that I am grateful for allowing me to be back to post, both publically and privately. Here is one more for good measure: :tiphat: Thank you, dUst!!! :tiphat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 [b]amarkich,[/b] you have warnings for breaking the phorum guidelines. they are meant to be followed. im closing this thread. this isn't a debate, this is questioning how this place is run, which can and should be done privately. there is no need for it to be open, Dairygirl you got questions? contact dUSt privately. email is good. pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Sometimes, I like to put cereal in my ice cream. It makes it crunchy, and oh so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 That's a good idea. I like to put those crunchy fried things in my egg drop soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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