Teenlife Mass - Just Rock N Pop?

[flip]

then why do we have different music in other Masses? could be that certain music speaks to different types of cultures???

I am talking about hip hop that would support, promote, and supllement the Sacrifice of the Eucharist.

The cry of my heart is to speak the Eucahrist to the inner city hip hop kids, Not to have a performance.

Im also NOT talking about top 40. Hip Hop is everything but top 40... learn the culture first...

and that is dope for the Apologist. much props. Priests give up being married to be a priests. thats dope as well. If I was in a situation where it was either Christ or Hip Hop... i would choose Christ. DUH. do yall not think I love Christ just as much as you? Im not a heretic, so dont treat me like one. i just have a passion for clarifing the gospel to kids that dont understand it...

Edited July 12, 2004 by flip

[jmjtina]

Flip, you know very well no one is calling you a heretic.

We [i]all[/i] have a passion for helping kids. I mean, that is why Phatmass is here, right? That is why we promote Catholic music? For the youth?

Do what you have been doing. Putting your rap talents to work for the youth.

I put the Top 40 as an extreme. I thought you would have known. My point was that the kids need Jesus, in the Eucharist, in the Mass.

God doesn't need our rap or any music presented to Him in Mass. God needs the kids souls and you and Phatmass, and others help bring him that, by using your talents to bring them to the Mass itself.

I really hope you don't misunderstand me again. We have to help each other.

God Bless.

[flip]

i agree

[inDEED]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jul 11 2004, 08:37 PM'] God doesn't need our rap or any music presented to Him in Mass. God needs the kids souls and you and Phatmass, and others help bring him that, by using your talents to bring them to the Mass itself. [/quote]
Beautifully put...

[M.SIGGA]

I feel like I'm jumping in the middle of something, but at the teen mass at my parish at home, we were a predominately afro-american parish, I think it was actually listed as one of the US's HomeMissions Parishes (formally the Missions for Colored People and Native Americans) and it was Full Gospel. In New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, and D.C. there are a number of these type parishes and it's all Gospel - tamborines, organ, piano, drums, guitars, you name it :band:

I'm at home this weekend and I actually went today and it was beautiful; the evangelism that pours out this ministry is amazing.

Edited July 12, 2004 by M.SIGGA

[Oik]

okay, now i think flip is getting it a little too harsh from some thoer posters.

A good point that Aloysius made about Hip-Hop not being sacred.
Some music is sacred, some isn't.
Somebody(ies) determines that. Several good points, such as Mass isn't exclusive.

[point5]

Flip....you will never get these cats to feel the way you do about hip-hop, and therefore...most (MOST) cannot see how it can be reverent... but I assure you that if some things are allowed in churches such as electric guitar, Ive even seen light drums, then there is no way people can exclude hip-hop.

by the way convincing these people is pointless. I commend you for trying to reach a higher target such as that director at the lifeteen website. That is where this topic should be brought up.

I love hip-hop...I love Jesus...I love phatmass.

MTB

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote]Aloysius and littleflower: i want to know what yall think about my post about praising God in heaven with Hip Hop. Do yall think I will be able to rap and praise Christ in Heaven? Please answer![/quote]

i dont think we can even begin to imagine what and how heaven will be like.

i didn't mean anything uncharitable in any of my posts, so sorry if it came across as such.....

and heres a link to the GIRM
[url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy"]click here[/url]
(click on roman missal)

pax.

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 11 2004, 12:45 PM'] i just thought...


The LifeTeen program thrives in mostly white suburban areas around America. Mainly, becuase the music of contemporary worship is geared toward that demographic. We find this problem in College Campus Ministries across America as well.

In the Catholic Church, we have many many churches in underdeveloped and non-affluent neigborhoods... what if LifeTeen had an urban ministry that focused on the youth in these communities? Instead of the "white suburban contemporary" songs, we would have the music of thier culture... which would probably be Hip Hop... [/quote]
You are right Flip.

It seems to be a prejudice against urban people and I believe hip hop can be christianized in such a way that it would not distract from the eucharist and would not be much different from the folk music that they started playing in the 60's that only appeals to the ex-hippies who are of caucasian descent in my parents generation. This Peter, Paul, and Mary music is so cheesy I end up fighting back laughter.

My church STILL has traditional mass in the morning at 8:00.

But they are playing this corny hippy folk music and trying to appeal to the parent who go to mass.

What is going to happen when you are a parent or grandparent yourself, and you are at mass with your children or grandchildren? Will they still be playing 60's style folk music? Most of the masses across the US are stuck in the 60's and 70's, and no one dares say anything.

Either take ALL of the music away, or let every culture be represented.
Don't pick and choose which cultures are appropriate. (they usually only approve
the music that the upper and middle class listen to)

I have a question. If we are supposed to bring the whole world into Catholicism what is going to happen to the African American Southern Baptists when they convert who for generations have sung this BEAUTIFUL gospel that stirs the soul, with so much beauty and passion and tears. These people that have worshipped through the years with their old traditional negro spirituals that helped them get through slavery....will they be forced to sit down and shut up and act white?

If you are at a little church in a dominately urban environment, let's say, in the middle of the Bronx, I think there is a way to have a youth group sing in their own language about Jesus...and it could be done at the beginning of mass, not at the processional to receive the Eucharist.

My church has children sing their Sunday School songs and they do body movements to the songs, and this is approved by our Bishop. We do it at the beginning of mass, and then when it's time for the Eucharist, there is a very extremely soft instrumental that gets everyone ready to meditate on what they are about to receive.

I think Flip has something, a spiritual stirring that is not going away.

True, we have to be obedient. And I will be obedient in this matter. But giving suggestions and ideas to the leaders in a respectful way and speaking to them from your heart about how you feel is not a sin. It's only suggestions and ideas. No one is going to defy their Bishop and the Pope and do something without approval.

But we need to be open to the day when the Pope could say it is okay. And if the Pope says it, we should not have any idols or attachments to prevent us from following what the Pope says.

[flip]

yeah. ladybug - you are such an inspiration... that's exactly what i feel.


and Mo, you are right... this topic belongs in the hands of the leaders of the Church, and the Leaders of LifeTeen... to which I have already started talking to. I appreciate everyone's comments, but i think i have reached a point where I will agree to disagree.

I agree that Hip Hop could lead the urban youth in reverence, meditation, and honor to the Eucharist in Mass.

Most of yall disagree wiht this statement.

ok - fine. The only thing that we have to find out is if the Leaders of the Church and the Holy Spirit agrees with me, or against me...

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 11 2004, 02:43 PM'] who says Hip Hop can not be reverent? Thats like saying God can't understand other languages.

Aloysius and littleflower: i want to know what yall think about my post about praising God in heaven with Hip Hop. Do yall think I will be able to rap and praise Christ in Heaven? Please answer!

ladybug - thanks for the encouragement. [/quote]
I think in Heaven, all those who have laughed and murmured about the gift you want to present to the feet of Jesus will be made to sit down and shut up while you perform for Him. ;-)

You will get your day to give your gift...don't worry, even if you are the last one to do it. And remember those who are last will be first!

[+GOD_iS_mOvInG+]

I came in late in this conversation, so forgive me if I might repeat anything..

I think hip hop is okey to have durring mass..if it doesnt take any thought or admiration from the Eucerist..that is just bad......

At my church, we have soft light rock...I shouldnt call it rock, its more acoustic...with very light, electric in the background..

We have slow...tearfully beautiful songs durring Communion...and it does nothing but remind you what you are here for..and how much GOD deserves...Praise the LORD! The only problam I have with it though..I think we should either have silence, or music near the time everyone has recieved the Eucerist. b/c I want to sing, but we also need time to meditate and reflect..

The only time durring the mass that is fast music everyone claps does hand motions etc...is the end of mass, when the priest walks out..then we should dance and rejoice! For we have accepted the Eucerist again, witch is keeping our Spirits healthy! "Rejoice and be glad!"

I must say...tho..I love the gathering around the altar! The first time I did that..I cried..and was soo touched! That made me feel loved..sometimes..young people first need to be loved by others, especially their peers, before they can feel loved by GOD...if they are loved by the teens(for me..this includes the altar call), they will keep wanting to come back to Life Teen, and like me, fully transform where they are with GOD....

at first, the main reason I came to the Life Teen mass, Ill admit, was b/c of the music..over time, alreading knowing it, I accepted the fact that it was wrong..I paid more attention to the Eucerist, and now the music is just another part of mass..I wouldnt be near to where I am in my prayer life..if it wasnt for the Life Teen Program, including the mass.

I think hip hop is fine, if it doesnt take ANYTHING away from the mass, and if we tell the teens to keep in mind that is not the reason why we are here, and to not care about the beat or rythem, mopre then the Eucerist..then, what are we doing wrong? At my church, we make sure to, and everyone in the Life Teen program(as far as Im consurned)has their full attention on the Eucerist.

[nikkan_hanil]

[quote name='ilovechrist' date='Jul 9 2004, 02:23 PM'] easy there flip.. most of us don't hate lifeteen. [/quote]
Yeah, well I'm with Flip on this one...

...but I certainly don't find rocl/pop/rap/whatever in Mass acceptaable...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='+GOD_iS_mOvInG' date='+Jul 13 2004, 09:13 PM'] I came in late in this conversation, so forgive me if I might repeat anything..

I think hip hop is okey to have durring mass..if it doesnt take any thought or admiration from the Eucerist..that is just bad......

At my church, we have soft light rock...I shouldnt call it rock, its more acoustic...with very light, electric in the background..

We have slow...tearfully beautiful songs durring Communion...and it does nothing but remind you what you are here for..and how much GOD deserves...Praise the LORD! The only problam I have with it though..I think we should either have silence, or music near the time everyone has recieved the Eucerist. b/c I want to sing, but we also need time to meditate and reflect..

The only time durring the mass that is fast music everyone claps does hand motions etc...is the end of mass, when the priest walks out..then we should dance and rejoice! For we have accepted the Eucerist again, witch is keeping our Spirits healthy! "Rejoice and be glad!"

I must say...tho..I love the gathering around the altar! The first time I did that..I cried..and was soo touched! That made me feel loved..sometimes..young people first need to be loved by others, especially their peers, before they can feel loved by GOD...if they are loved by the teens(for me..this includes the altar call), they will keep wanting to come back to Life Teen, and like me, fully transform where they are with GOD....

at first, the main reason I came to the Life Teen mass, Ill admit, was b/c of the music..over time, alreading knowing it, I accepted the fact that it was wrong..I paid more attention to the Eucerist, and now the music is just another part of mass..I wouldnt be near to where I am in my prayer life..if it wasnt for the Life Teen Program, including the mass.

I think hip hop is fine, if it doesnt take ANYTHING away from the mass, and if we tell the teens to keep in mind that is not the reason why we are here, and to not care about the beat or rythem, mopre then the Eucerist..then, what are we doing wrong? At my church, we make sure to, and everyone in the Life Teen program(as far as Im consurned)has their full attention on the Eucerist. [/quote]
Just remember altar gathers and deciding to add hand motions are not part of Catholic Mass. They are added by people who are not obedient to the Catholic church.

When we enter a Catholic Church, for a Catholic Mass, we are entering another world, a holy world. During the sacrifice of the Mass, we are back at the foot of the cross as Jesus dies for us. We are surrounded by the angels and saints. This is the most important event in our entire life.

Its up to the Church to decide what music can lift our hearts and minds and bodies and souls to God. It shouldn't be music we hear on the streets, we are not in the streets but standing on the fringes of eternity.

[ladybug]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jul 17 2004, 09:05 AM'] " standing on the fringes of eternity." [/quote]
I like that!