Teenlife Mass - Just Rock N Pop?

[flip]

yeah , i understand...


but listen, the Church has never said "Hip Hop Music cannot be Sacred" thats what's on the table here. Im obdient to the Church, and if the Church ever said "Hip Hop is evil" i would follow that... i wouldn't believe it, but i would be obedient to it.

And with regards to the Life Teen program. Didnt all thier Masses have to be approved by the Bishop? If the Bishop gave permission than what are we arguing over? That is the Bishop's job: To oversee all Masses in his jurisdiction and make sure that they are not abusing the Church. If he's not doing his job, well, then he shouldn't be in that position... In my high school, we had liturgical dance at Mass, becuase we had a pardon from the Bishop... The Bishop was acting as the authoratitive judge of the Church, even though liturgical dance is banned in America (which smells of elderberries BTW), we got to have it becuase we were pardoned. We were commiting no sin or "disobiedence" against the Church, becuase we had an official say it was ok...

In regards to music, the Catechism only talks about using "Sacred" music. No specific music is listed... not Gregorian chant, not ooran music, not Spanish, not Afirikaan chants with hand drums... the Church is not specefic to what type of Music shall be used in Mass. She understands that the body of Christ is made up of many cultures, therefore the culture of the people determine what type of music is Sacred music to thier community...

I just want to hear that us, as people of the hip hop community and culture, can stand and say Hip Hop [i]can [/i]be Sacred...

so, im going to start a poll...

[littleflower+JMJ]

however, if you read the link i gave you it states a bishop can give pardon but it must be within the Chruch's teachings and approval and judged of its fruitfullness.

lifeteen did the altar call and after a year of review, it was viewed and decided it can no longer be done.

yeah music is sacred by what the Church defines it as, can't get that much simpler.

[littleflower+JMJ]

also the Church wont call it evil, it would say it has no place in the Holy Mass (because not just any music is allowed in mass) and/or its not acceptable by what She defines.

doesnt mean its bad, just mean all things have a time and a place.

pax.

[flip]

i just thought...


The LifeTeen program thrives in mostly white suburban areas around America. Mainly, becuase the music of contemporary worship is geared toward that demographic. We find this problem in College Campus Ministries across America as well.

In the Catholic Church, we have many many churches in underdeveloped and non-affluent neigborhoods... what if LifeTeen had an urban ministry that focused on the youth in these communities? Instead of the "white suburban contemporary" songs, we would have the music of thier culture... which would probably be Hip Hop...

[Aloysius]

Gregorian Chant is to have pride of place in the Mass. There should be no hip hop in the mass. Why? Because there simply shouldn't. Get over it. I would never ever go to a Mass with Hip Hop in it unless there was no other way to fulfill my sunday obligation.

The Mass is sacred. The Mass is ancient. The Mass deserves reverence. Hip Hop, though entertaining, is not reverent to the Sacred Mysteries.

[ladybug]

[quote name='flip' date='Jul 9 2004, 03:42 PM']
this is one of the most beautiful things ive ever heard...



i do wonder, in heaven, is their hip hop music? will i ever have to stop rapping? in the Great Divorce, Lewsi shows us a painter who is told that he can paint in Heaven of course, he just has to paint for God and not for himself...

i rap for God now... will i be able to do it in His prescence in Heaven, praising Him with it?








if the answer is "yes", than why can i not praise him with hip hop on Earth in His prescence? And where oh wehre is Christ present on Earth? Thats right folks, in the Mass...





Catholic Crusader... man, do you hate modernity. i love hip hop. and when i make hip hop music, it is God inspired and Holy Spirit driven. I you cannot understand that, you are ridiculous... remember, God can take the evil things and sancitify them (take human beings for example). [/quote]
Sometimes people come along that have this idea and it doesn't happen in their lifetime, but when people look back in history they say "Wow, he was way before his time".

"Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. "
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


Be the best hip hop artist for God that you can be.

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 11 2004, 12:48 PM']Gregorian Chant is to have pride of place in the Mass. There should be no hip hop in the mass. Why? Because there simply shouldn't. Get over it. I would never ever go to a Mass with Hip Hop in it unless there was no other way to fulfill my sunday obligation.

The Mass is sacred.  The Mass is ancient.  The Mass deserves reverence.  Hip Hop, though entertaining, is not reverent to the Sacred Mysteries. [/quote]

word.

[flip]

who says Hip Hop can not be reverent? Thats like saying God can't understand other languages.

Aloysius and littleflower: i want to know what yall think about my post about praising God in heaven with Hip Hop. Do yall think I will be able to rap and praise Christ in Heaven? Please answer!

ladybug - thanks for the encouragement.

[Aloysius]

Heaven will be beyond anything we can imagine on this earth.


Hip Hop is not reverent.

Pax

[Aloysius]

I love PhatMass Hip Hop. It's awesome. It's dope. It's off the heezy fo sheezy. There are many words that can be used to discribe it. It is in it's own way spiritually edifying. However, one thing it is not: it is not a reverent form of music. I'm not calling it irreverent, but regardless of the lyrics the style and beats are not what is appropriately reverent during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

So long as you keep it out of the Mass, I'm cool with it. But do it in the Mass and I'll smash up your turntable and cut the cord off your mic. Well, maybe I won't do that, but I'll be quite upset.

Pax Amorque Christi

[flip]

if i cant do hip hop in the presence of Christ than what is the point, Aloysius?

I agree that Heaven will be unlike anything we can imagine... so, imagine this: me using the God given talents I have to praise God forever and ever in Heaven. Him looking at me smiling and enjoying His well due praise. Imagine a Church that is truly Universal and meets everysingle person where they are and speaks to them. Imagine all parts of the body making the body of Christ. Imagine sharing in communion with dancers, singers, artists, emcees, poets... imagine all artists using thier gifts to worship, adore, and love the physical Body of our Lord on this world. Imagine a prostitue using her hair, the very thing that she used to attract and make men lust after her, to wash our Lord's feet. Imagine people using thier gifts to serve the Lord.

Now imagine a God that can understand and smile when all music is played to the Glory of His name. IMagine a God who loves Affrikan dance. IMagine a God who loves hip hop. Imagine a God who loves the organ. Imagine a God who loves Gregorian chant. Imagine a God who loves heavy metal guitars. IMagine a God who accepts us and does not care about what we are praising Him with, just as long as we are praising Him.

Imagine a congregation of urban people, who love praising God through Hip Hop. Imagine the entrance song as everyone explodes with joy as the Priest enters. Imagine the GLORIA at the top of our lungs! Imagine the Alleluia at the wonderous message brought from the homily. Imagine the gifts being paraded down the aisle and everyone in joyfull acclamation about what is about to take place. Imagine the entire congregation hitting thier knees and expierencing the Sacrifice of Mass. Imagine all the urban people coming together to Communion with the Church and praying earnestly to make thier hearts and wills conform to God's, and realizing that the are eating the BRead of Life, and that the Lord Christ is truly present in front of them...amen... and then Imagine the sending forth, the wonderful music that sends us out in the world and helps us express the joy to know that our Lord died for us and that we need to live by example in such a tainted world. THis is how i see hip hop Mass.

I hope you don't see it as anything else. Im not talking about a concert here, but im sure you know that...

I don't care if you wont come to a hip hop Mass. You're invited, because Christ invites you (if it ever would exist), but you make that choice. Just as one makes the choice to go to a LIfeTeen Mass with contemporary music, one goes to a black Catholic church with Gospel music, one goes to a Latin Mass, one goes to an afrikaan Mass with dance, one goes to a Spanish Mass with Latin music, one goes to a.... the list goes on.

this is where we disagree:
you say Hip Hop is not reverent
I say it can be...

[Aloysius]

excuse me while i point out the utter absurtity of your argument

by your logic, that you should be able to perform your rap in the physical presence of the Lord, EVERYONE should use their talents in the Mass, right? We should have painters painting pictures for our Lord during the Mass, we should have actors acting out skits, drummers drumming, rappers rapping, organists playing, folk music singers singing. heck, everyone should bring their talents to the Mass? why not have politicians campaigning, teachers teaching, gymnists doing their gymnatics....

you see the absurdity of it? should every single form of talent be allowed at Mass on the basis that if they can't do it in front of the Physical Presence of our Lord it's somehow pointless? no.

Pax Amorque Christi

[inDEED]

Interesting debate...

[flip]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 11 2004, 04:53 PM'] excuse me while i point out the utter absurtity of your argument

by your logic, that you should be able to perform your rap in the physical presence of the Lord, EVERYONE should use their talents in the Mass, right? We should have painters painting pictures for our Lord during the Mass, we should have actors acting out skits, drummers drumming, rappers rapping, organists playing, folk music singers singing. heck, everyone should bring their talents to the Mass? why not have politicians campaigning, teachers teaching, gymnists doing their gymnatics....

you see the absurdity of it? should every single form of talent be allowed at Mass on the basis that if they can't do it in front of the Physical Presence of our Lord it's somehow pointless? no.

Pax Amorque Christi [/quote]
i guess you are right. im absurd. i actually lead an arts ministry at my college that is exactly what you described (wihtout the poloticians and teachers). I mean, i was just thinking about music... cause we have music in Mass. we dont have painting or dancing, so i was specifically speaking about music, since music is an artform that we have in Mass...

sorry for being so absurd.

do you think the people who wanted to change the Mass from Latin to vernacular were called absurd? Probably. The people who started LifeTeen? Probably.


Does my description of the Hip Hop Mass not make you smile and overjoyed? I wonder what God is thinking about this idea...

[jmjtina]

I have talked to the Apologist many times. One thing that you get while talking to him is his love of rap and hip-hop for the Lord and the Church. I'm sure Mc Just can vouch for that.

Yet, as much as he loves making music, he can't rap, due to his obedience to his superiors. What is amazing to see is his sacrifice and love for God, putting Christ before himself and what he loves to do. When it came down to it, a choice, rapping/making music and his physical service for Christ, he put Christ first.

[quote]I don't care if you wont come to a hip hop Mass. You're invited, because Christ invites you (if it ever would exist), but you make that choice. Just as one makes the choice to go to a LIfeTeen Mass with contemporary music, one goes to a black Catholic church with Gospel music, one goes to a Latin Mass, one goes to an afrikaan Mass with dance, one goes to a Spanish Mass with Latin music, one goes to a.... the list goes on.[/quote]

The Mass is meant for [b]everyone[/b]. The Mass is [u]not[/u] meant to be [b]exclusive[/b]. The Holy Church defines what is acceptable for everyone, not just for a certain taste, or preference.

Lifeteen didn't have to wait for Rome to tell them it was wrong, some of the kids already knew it. Does that make them Lifeteen bashers? No, it makes them defenders of the Holy Mass. I am a youth minister and have been working on the diocesan and parish level for 7 years. The kids just want to understand the Mass. They don't need dancing, they don't need the Top 40 being played, they just need the Eucharist, truly Jesus Himself. That's why our youth have a HUGE love for the Pope and not Justin Timberlake or Jay-Z. Our Pope stands for something that is and forever will be.

Music is nothing but petty details in regards to the Mass. Everything that is not on the altar should supplement since everything else is secondary. The arts ministry you have is VERY different from the Holy Mass.

Mass is God's time, not ours.

God Bless.