Wearing a Habit as a sign of Consecration - like St. Catherine of Siena

[ConfettiCatholic]

Hello all,
I have a question regarding religious habits and veils.
 I know St. Catherine of Siena and many other Saints who were not official *Sisters* (did not live in a convent, and did not take perpetual vows) but they were - third order, consecrated, took private vows, oblation ETC - they wore a habit as part of their consecration to God. 
Is this no longer practiced? Would it be deemed disrespectful to wear a habit if you aren't living in a convent, and have taken no vows or belong to any community - but you are consecrated to God via private vows/oblation?

[Bonkira]

Private vows are not considered in the same way as vows of consecration overseen by a bishop. What would be the goal of wearing a habit if there are none of the other associated pieces of consecration in place (vows, a rule of life, a superior of some sort, consecration to the vocation)? It could very easily fall into personal gratification etc, given that the habit is worn as an obligation to vows, obedience etc.

I'd advise someone to chat with the spiritual director. Putting on a habit without anything else in place is putting the cart before the horse.

[ConfettiCatholic]

8 minutes ago, Bonkira said:

Private vows are not considered in the same way as vows of consecration overseen by a bishop. What would be the goal of wearing a habit if there are none of the other associated pieces of consecration in place (vows, a rule of life, a superior of some sort, consecration to the vocation)? It could very easily fall into personal gratification etc, given that the habit is worn as an obligation to vows, obedience etc.

I'd advise someone to chat with the spiritual director. Putting on a habit without anything else in place is putting the cart before the horse.

The goal would be living as part of a third order, yet wearing the habit - like how St. Catherine of Siena did 

[Bonkira]

2 minutes ago, ConfettiCatholic said:

The goal would be living as part of a third order, yet wearing the habit - like how St. Catherine of Siena did 

Then that would require acceptance into a third order and operating under that obedience; it would not be up to you, it would be up to the superior of the order...some third order rules dictate what members are to wear, some do not, but it is all ultimately in obedience to the rule and the order's superior. Most third orders do not wear a monastic habit. 

[Luigi]

The type of Third Order that St. Catharine belonged to has - at some point in time after she was living that life - been regulated. Technically, sisters who are not nuns are members of third orders. So the Franciscans, Dominicans, Sisters of St. Joseph, School Sisters of Notre Dame, Daughters of Charity - those are all third order congregations. 

I agree with Bonkira - talk to a spiritual director. But you could also talk to the religious of the existing third orders. If you consider yourself a third order Dominican, a la Catharine of Siena, talk to some Dominican sisters and ask them. 

[Lea]

12 hours ago, ConfettiCatholic said:

I know St. Catherine of Siena and many other Saints who were not official *Sisters* (did not live in a convent, and did not take perpetual vows) but they were - third order, consecrated, took private vows, oblation ETC - they wore a habit as part of their consecration to God. 
Is this no longer practiced? 

I know at least two persons under private vows to a bishop that include wearing a religious habit and using a religious name.  Yet I don't know if this is applicable to all cases, as one of the given is in the process of founding a new religious congregation and the other one is a CV. 
But it's certainly possible. 

 

[Nunsuch]

14 hours ago, Luigi said:

Technically, sisters who are not nuns are members of third orders. So the Franciscans, Dominicans, Sisters of St. Joseph, School Sisters of Notre Dame, Daughters of Charity - those are all third order congregations. 

 

This would not be the case for Daughters of Charity, who only take private (not public) vows, annually. They are not similar to the other groups you name. And the Sisters of St. Joseph and School Sisters of Notre Dame are not a "third order," either, as they have no connection to a larger order with men and with contemplative nuns. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Nunsuch

[Guest]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:53 PM, Lea said:

Yet I don't know if this is applicable to all cases, as one of the given is in the process of founding a new religious congregation and the other one is a CV. 

I think that probably the above would be in Consecrated Life.

Private Vows to Evangelical Counsels places one firmly in the Laity as an ordinary lay person in private vows, which build on Baptism.  It is a call to the renewal of the temporal order (present life) while living in and of the world.  As such, I nowadays personally do not think a religious habit is appropriate as. for me. it most commonly marks (states publicly) the person is in Consecrated Life in some form - and is out of the world for the world, rather than in the world for the world through private vows (Canon Law) redirecting the temporal order to God through The Gospel, primarily by their own Gospel way of life.

"The laity are called to renew the temporal order" Catechesis by Pope John Paul II on the Church
General Audience, Wednesday 13 April 1994 - http://totus2us.com/teaching/jpii-catechesis-on-the-church/the-laity-are-called-to-renew-the-temporal-order/

Edited May 17, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

Incidentally, those in Consecrated Life, in its varied expressions, are still in the Laity.  They are a specialized varied consecrated grouping within the Laity.  Only priests and deacons are in Holy Orders, rather than Laity.

Private Vows to the Evangelical Counsels do not mark one publicly as being in Private Vows.

I can always stand corrected at any point, but I think the religious habit came about so a religious family would all dress the same.  Apparently in the beginnings of religious life, in its evolution in The Church, rich women for example wore rich clothing in opposition to their poorer sisters - sometimes rich women even had servants and elaborate living quarters.  I think that religious life will go on evolving and this can be what some find difficult to impossible.

The same evolutionary process can, at least theoretically, take place with women in Private Vows to the E.C.

Edited May 17, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[gloriana35]

Perhaps this has changed, and I hope so, but many of the SFOs I knew had an attitude of 'religious life is obsolete - we are the Franciscans of today.' Nearly all were married. Had they worn religious garb, it could have given a puzzling view of both religious life and marriage!

[Sister Andrew]

From what I've read during St. Catherine of Siena's time is was a common practice for certain members of a third order to be given a habit to wear and it was not just her decision to wear it. I think most third orders now a days do not have a habit like St. Catherine did but many have some kind of outward sign, like a pin or cross they receive when they have gone through formation and they make their commitment to the order.

There are some people that live a single consecrated life and they have permission from their bishop to wear some sort of identifiable dress that looks like a habit.

I think the first step would be to discuss it with the Third order if you're interested in joining one and discussing it with someone in your diocese. 

 

God bless!

[Nunsuch]

The really important thing here is not externals, such as dress (which can be nice), but rather the nature and sincerity of one's commitment. The religious I know who do not wear habits are every bit as vowed and committed as those who do. If we put too much emphasis on things like uniforms and sacramentals, we may lose sight of what really matters. It's sort of like those who spend so much time obsessing over their weddings that they lose sight of the lifelong marriage that is to follow! 

 

[Guest]

Quote

And why are you worried about clothing? Notice how the lilies of the field grow; they do not labor nor do they spin thread for cloth, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!25“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on (Matthew Chapter 6)

The whole of this Chapter is a more detailed way of living and a rule of life in itself, summarized in the Our Father also in Chapter 6.

The instructions of Jesus are not optional suggestions, rather they are mandated instructions, and a lifelong quest, a bar set very high, perfected only in Heaven.

Mea maxima culpa

 

[gloriana35]

I think it would be useful to have good scriptural commentaries at hand. The point of that passage has no exegetical connection to this thread at all. I guarantee a Near Eastern Hebrew, 2000 years ago, was not giving instructions about Christian religious life....

I'm surprised at all the forms of legalism I see on Vocation Station. There's too much about 'who gave permission for this - who didn't give permission for that - who might be doing something for which they don't have approval..." When no-one is doing wrong - indeed, may be practising virtue - why is there this excessive emphasis on authority? 

Catherine of Siena indeed had a fascinating life (and I'm inclined to think that her dispositions would not have made her love the idea of getting the true pope back from Avignon... had she lived in another time and place, I can see Teresa of Avila loving such a task.) She was a 'mantellate' - third Order Dominicans, mostly widows, who vowed a celibate life and forms of service. Her becoming a part of this took a 'bit of doing' - she was much younger than most in that way of life. But someone whose wedding ring was Jesus' foreskin, bestowed in a vision, wasn't likely to be totally focused on who gave permission for what. Her mystic works are brilliant - the intensity of her prayer life means a great deal. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gloriana35 said:

why is there this excessive emphasis on authority? 

Some probably don't need or want it.  I need it, it keeps me sane and true to my Baptismal and personal private vow.  It is the great variety of life that fascinates me often.

No problems at all with differing concepts.  To my way of thought, differences can be very healthy and for me, can point to the possibility that truth is still struggling to be heard.

Other than that...........whatever.........

The wonder and the Beauty of Scripture to me too is that at once it speaks to the past and to the now, also to the future - and only my concept after all   I am only a lay woman.

I do think that St Catherine of Siena was one of our stunning saints and the miracle that was her journey here.  To me she was a very liberated woman ...... beyond her time.  I love the lady.

Peace and Joy

Edited May 21, 2021 by BarbaraTherese