The COVID-19 Vaccines Are Evil (The Mediocrity Of Vatican Morality)

[Maccabee]

Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre.  What say you?

VaxSanity.com

[Luigi]

I say, "Thank God there's someone on this board who knows more than the Pope and all the cardinals, bishops, and theologians combined, who can tell me the real and unvarnished truth." Whew! To think I almost believed the people who were called by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church, against which the Gates of Hell cannot prevail! 

Really and truly - infinite thanks to you!

[cruciatacara]

Love it, @Luigi. I have had the vaccine. Glad I did. Don't feel like a murderer. Feel protected. Glad God made humans with the brains to figure out things like vaccines. Glad God wants people to stay alive through their intelligence. Glad the Pope and cardinals aren't hysterical anti-vaxxers.

[Norseman82]

16 hours ago, Maccabee said:

Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre.  What say you?

VaxSanity.com

Of the four major vaccines, only Johnson & Johnson (aka "J&J") and AstroZeneca are manufactured from lines of aborted fetal cells.  Pfizer and Moderna, at most, may have had some of their testing done on those cell lines, but they were not produced from aborted fetal cell lines.  In fact, this distinction is was brought up when some bishops said that if someone has a choice of vaccines, to choose Pfizer or Moderna over J&J or AstroZeneca.  

Also, I looked at that website, and the first thing I saw was an old ad stating how doctors chose Camel cigarettes and some other kooky memes about how "big brother" is out to get you, so I don't know if it is meant as a spoof or if it is just another "Kook-Anon" style website.  

[Maccabee]

Not interested in trading insults.  Will address the point you made regarding Pfizer and Moderna. 

Pfizer and Moderna used HEK 293 in the research and development of the vaccine.  The Pfizer and Moderna vaccine is associated with murder in its development.  It is not fitting to minimize this problem.

The position I have taken is that every vaccine that uses the fruits of murder in its development is evil (not good).  Every vaccine that uses the rotten fruits of murder in its development is, in some aspect, derived from mortal sin.  If you learned that murder was used in the research and development of the latest medicine/"miracle drug" then your moral values should compel you to abstain from receiving that medicine.  That mortal sin derived medicine is harmful to your soul.  There are very few people that can plead ignorance in this matter of murder derived vaccines. 

You seem to concede that murder was used in the development of all the COVID-19 vaccines that are currently available. 

The moral values we conform to should be much higher than what the Vatican, the Pontifical Academy for Life, the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and many Bishops have lowered themselves to, regarding the toleration of evil vaccines.

Pfizer, Moderna, and AstroZeneca used HEK 293 in the development of their COVID-19 vaccines.

Johnson & Johnson used Per C.6 in the development of the J&J COVID-19 vaccine.

HEK 293: Developed in 1972 or 1973 from aborted baby kidney cells genetically engineered combined with adenovirus. 293 is the number of the experiment. 

PER C6: Developed in 1995. Baby was aborted and frozen in 1985.  Derived from an 18-week-old, aborted baby in 1985. 

The Pontifical Academy for Life’s 2005 document, Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, admitted that it is sinful to use aborted fetal cells for scientific research.  

Though the Congregation for The Doctrine of Faith offers the following teaching from their 2008 document entitled Instruction Dignitas Personae on Certain Bioethical Questions:

In this regard, the criterion of independence as it has been formulated by some ethics committees is not sufficient. According to this criterion, the use of “biological material” of illicit origin would be ethically permissible provided there is a clear separation between those who, on the one hand, produce, freeze and cause the death of embryos and, on the other, the researchers involved in scientific experimentation. The criterion of independence is not sufficient to avoid a contradiction in the attitude of the person who says that he does not approve of the injustice perpetrated by others, but at the same time accepts for his own work the “biological material” which the others have obtained by means of that injustice. When the illicit action is endorsed by the laws which regulate healthcare and scientific research, it is necessary to distance oneself from the evil aspects of that system in order not to give the impression of a certain toleration or tacit acceptance of actions which are gravely unjust.  Any appearance of acceptance would in fact contribute to the growing indifference to, if not the approval of, such actions in certain medical and political circles.

It is mediocre for the Vatican to take a stance against each contribution to the development of vaccines derived from murdered children, but then lack the courage to challenge the reception of these evil vaccines.  This is the much-needed conscientious objection that would truly oppose this abomination. 

In spite of the many deficiencies found in the 2005 Pontifical Academy for Life document, Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, there was still a moral guideline that prevents the faithful from receiving murder derived vaccines.  According to the document, for murder derived vaccines to be received, the following four conditions must be met:

1.     Grave risk to health.

2.     No moral alternative.

3.     The recipient of the vaccine or the parents of the child that receives the vaccine must make known their objections to the many evils associated with the murder derived vaccines.

4.     Those who accept murder derived vaccines must actively work towards moral alternatives. 

Only when these four conditions are met, only then is it morally permissible to receive these evil vaccines.  These four conditions have never been met. 

1.     Mild childhood diseases are not a grave risk to health.

2.     There are moral alternatives but the pharmaceutical industry refuses to provide them. 

3.     Rarely, if ever, do those who are willing to receive murder derived vaccines make any objections known.  If they did make those objections known then they might stir up enough moral courage to reject them.

4.     Neither the Vatican, nor those who follow the Vatican’s mediocre moral reflections concerning murder derived vaccines, are actively working towards moral alternatives. 

Though, under certain conditions, it may be tolerable to accept murder derived vaccines, these vaccines are never capable of being accepted as moral goods.  They are evil.  They are Satanic.  They pose grave danger to your embodied soul.  Vaccines derived from murdered young ones are not moral goods. 

Any and every golden-calf-vaccine associated with murdered offspring, murdered children sacrificed for the lie of Satan, any and every vaccine of this kind, should be destroyed and abolished.  This should be the clear statement of the Pontifical Academy for Life, were it worthy of the name. 

Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre.  What say you?

3 hours ago, Norseman82 said:

Of the four major vaccines, only Johnson & Johnson (aka "J&J") and AstroZeneca are manufactured from lines of aborted fetal cells.  Pfizer and Moderna, at most, may have had some of their testing done on those cell lines, but they were not produced from aborted fetal cell lines.  In fact, this distinction is was brought up when some bishops said that if someone has a choice of vaccines, to choose Pfizer or Moderna over J&J or AstroZeneca.  

Also, I looked at that website, and the first thing I saw was an old ad stating how doctors chose Camel cigarettes and some other kooky memes about how "big brother" is out to get you, so I don't know if it is meant as a spoof or if it is just another "Kook-Anon" style website.  

I posted a reply but neglected to quote your comment.  Please consider my above reply which begins with "Not interested in trading insults." 

Thank you. 

In Christ.

[Maccabee]

6 hours ago, Luigi said:

I say, "Thank God there's someone on this board who knows more than the Pope and all the cardinals, bishops, and theologians combined, who can tell me the real and unvarnished truth." Whew! To think I almost believed the people who were called by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church, against which the Gates of Hell cannot prevail! 

Really and truly - infinite thanks to you!

Your response does not reflect my position.  To clarify, I do agree that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.  I do not appeal to my knowledge for my position regarding murder derived vaccines.  I concede that the Pope, all the cardinals, bishops, and theologians combined posses more knowledge than me.  My position is not intended to offer the real and unvarnished truth (though it is my honest and sincere perspective on murder derived vaccines - which I do believe to be true).  I do not think that the Holy Spirit has confirmed that murder derived vaccines are to be accepted as moral goods.  I will be grateful if you can provide me with the most authoritative Church teaching regarding murder derived vaccines that is relevant to the position I have offered for debate:

"Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre."

If you prefer, I will revise my position for you to be even more specific:

Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, from the Vatican (recent popes included) to the Pontifical Academy for Life to the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith to the numerous successors of the apostles (Cardinals included) and to the exceptionally smart theologians, are mediocre.

If there is an authoritative Church teaching that prohibits me from holding this position then I will be grateful to receive that reference so that I may revise my position further.

In Christ.

 

 

[Maccabee]

5 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Love it, @Luigi. I have had the vaccine. Glad I did. Don't feel like a murderer. Feel protected. Glad God made humans with the brains to figure out things like vaccines. Glad God wants people to stay alive through their intelligence. Glad the Pope and cardinals aren't hysterical anti-vaxxers.

There seems to be no reason for you to feel like a murderer, but there may still be a benefit in considering the murder that is associated with murder derived vaccines.  cogforlife.org is a good website to assist with that.  My website VaxSanity.com offers plenty of videos and other materials, but is intended to wake people from their slumber (if possible).  

Along with the issue of the murder there remains the immoral trafficking of human remains that is associated with the murder derived vaccines.  These issues are not raised to invoke incidental feelings.  They are intended to point towards further correspondence to grace and conformity of will. 

Certainly, I can claim no superiority in my struggle to be holy.  Thank God for the Sacraments and communion of saints to help us continue reach beyond our limitations. 

There doesn't seem to be any hysteria to the anti-abortion position that demands a stance against murder derived vaccines.  I wish there were a heavier term to use for my position.  Though it may be intended to be used, as a disrespectful term, against my position, I think it is to light of a sentiment.  I would relate to a term much weightier than "anti-vaxxer"...  I think  anti-evil-vaccines (emojis included - with the understanding that most, if not all, vaccines are evil/not good).  There does appear to be hysteria to the position that heckles moral objections to murder derived vaccines. 

According to the public health authorities you should not feel protected from the SARS-CoV2 virus but you are allowed to feel protected from the clinical symptoms of the virus.  The vaccine allows you to be a superspreader.  There are plenty of human brains, many of which are influenced by corruption, which promote these murder derived vaccines.  There are also plenty of human brains, many of which are independent leaders in the relevant fields of science, which caution against these reckless vaccines and the COVID-19 hysteria that has caused immeasurable harm.  Most of all, God wants people to use there intelligence to correspond to His grace and conform to His will.  I hope all the best for you in this pursuit.  I hope to meet you in heaven one fine day where we may be joined by our friends, family and enemies.

In Christ.   

Was hoping for a debate to help further articulate the position I proposed.  I will be give it a week to see if anything substantial can be generated. 

Happy to continue the discussion directly through the contact email posted on my website VaxSanity.com 

Not interested in trading insults.

Hecklers need not reply.  Feel free to do so till it satisfies but do not expect a response if that's your aim.

All the best to you and yours.

In Christ

[rosamundi]

6 hours ago, Maccabee said:

 

1.     Mild childhood diseases are not a grave risk to health.

This isn't true. Childhood diseases can be fatal, or cause significant long-term health effects either in the patient or, in the case of rubella, in the unborn child of a pregnant woman who is infected.

Measles can kill, or leave the patient with brain damage, deafness and heart defects.

Rubella can damage unborn babies.

Diptheria has a 5-10% fatality rate, as does tetanus, and pertussis is just miserable to endure, with a 0.5% fatality rate in the US.

Mumps is rarely fatal but can cause fertility issues.

 

[Maccabee]

5 hours ago, rosamundi said:

This isn't true. Childhood diseases can be fatal, or cause significant long-term health effects either in the patient or, in the case of rubella, in the unborn child of a pregnant woman who is infected.

Measles can kill, or leave the patient with brain damage, deafness and heart defects.

Rubella can damage unborn babies.

Diptheria has a 5-10% fatality rate, as does tetanus, and pertussis is just miserable to endure, with a 0.5% fatality rate in the US.

Mumps is rarely fatal but can cause fertility issues.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution.  I appreciate your civility. 

Yes.  Mild childhood diseases can be fatal, or cause significant long-term health effects to the patient or to the unborn child that the patient might spread it to. Every mild, low risk disease can be fatal, or may contribute to significant health effects to the patient or to the unborn child that the patient might spread it to.  Nonetheless, mild childhood diseases are not a grave risk to health.  Likewise, SARS-CoV2 is not a grave risk to health.  Thus, according to the weak standards set by the deceitful Pontifical Academy for Life in the 2005 document Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, the criteria has not been met to receive the murder derived vaccines.  

Let use the same can be, or may, standards to expose the faulty premise.  measles/rubella/diptheria/mumps vaccines can be fatal, or may cause significant long-term health effects.  On that basis, are you compelled to resist measles/rubella/diptheria/mumps vaccines?  Mild, low risk, rare diseases do not justify the reception of murder derived vaccines.  This is why the above mentioned Pontifical Academy for Life document employed the common deceptions of the pharmaceutical industry/corrupt governments that push murder derived vaccines onto the unsuspecting/uncritical public. 

Thank you for listing a few examples.  Let us examine those examples more carefully for further consideration of how they relate to the justification for using murdered children in the development of evil vaccines, and to the justification for receiving these evil vaccines. 

First, let us acknowledge the children that were murdered in the development of the vaccines for the mild, low risk diseases which you have listed.

WI-38: Developed in 1961 or 1962. Taken from the lung tissue of a 3 month, aborted, female baby. WI = Wistar Institute, 38 = 38th baby whose Big Pharma procured murder was worthy enough to be documented. WI-38 was used to produce the Chickenpox, Shingles, and Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccines.

RA273: Developed in 1964. Taken from the lung of a 3-month aborted baby. R=Rubella, A=Abortus, 27=27th baby, 3=3rd tissue explant. Stanley Plotkin, vaccine developer, would later reveal that 40 more babies were aborted after RA273 was successfully isolated, with virus strains taken from 34 of them. Twenty-Seven abortions, plus 40 more abortions, equals 67 abortions to produce rubella virus. Then, on top of the 67 murders, the additional 32 abortions to produce the cell line for cultivation means. There was a sum total of at least 99 murdered children to create the rubella vaccine. 9 RA273 was used to produce the Measles/Mumps/Rubella, and MMR-plus-Chickenpox vaccines.

MRC-5: Developed in 1965 from the lung tissue of a 14-week aborted male baby. Introduced in Great Britain by the Medical Research Council. MRC-5 was used to produce the Chickenpox, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis A & B, Hepatitis A & Typhoid, Measles/Mumps/Rubella, MMR-plus-Chickenpox, Rabies, Shingles, and Smallpox vaccines.

IMR-90 AND IMR-91: Developed in 1975 using lung and skin from female (IMR-90) and male (IMR-91) fetal lung tissues. Created to replace the depleting WI-38. “Developed and characterized in such a way as to parallel WI-38 as closely as possible to minimize the variables in replacing WI-38 within ongoing laboratory programs.”(Cell Collections A publication of the Coriell Cell Repositories 2003/2004)

WALVAX2: Developed in 2015, in China, from the lung tissue of a 3-month aborted baby girl who was ultimately selected from 9 murdered children. To replace the current MRC-5 and WI-38 which are depleting.  The developers of WALVAX2 noted that they selected aborted babies ranging from 2-4 months gestation to mimic the development of MRC-5 and WI-38.  These scientists further note that they induced labor using a “water bag” abortion to shorten the delivery time and avoid the death of the fetus so that live intact organs could immediately be sent to the labs for cell preparation.

Allow me to repeat the full context of the criteria I presented for consideration.

In spite of the many deficiencies found in the 2005 Pontifical Academy for Life document, Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, there was still a moral guideline that prevents the faithful from receiving murder derived vaccines.  According to the document, for murder derived vaccines to be received, the following four conditions must be met:

1.     Grave risk to health.

2.     No moral alternative.

3.     The recipient of the vaccine or the parents of the child that receives the vaccine must make known their objections to the many evils associated with the murder derived vaccines.

4.     Those who accept murder derived vaccines must actively work towards moral alternatives. 

Only when these four conditions are met, only then is it morally permissible to receive these evil vaccines.  These four conditions have never been met. 

1.     Mild childhood diseases are not a grave risk to health.

2.     There are moral alternatives but the pharmaceutical industry refuses to provide them. 

3.     Rarely, if ever, do those who are willing to receive murder derived vaccines make any objections known.  If they did make those objections known then they might stir up enough moral courage to reject them.

4.     Neither the Vatican, nor those who follow the Vatican’s mediocre moral reflections concerning murder derived vaccines, are actively working towards moral alternatives. 

Thank you, again, for your thoughtful consideration of the first criteria.  Here is my response to the position you have presented:

Since Measles and Rubella are the more common examples used to promote murder derived vaccines I will give special attention to them before moving on to the remaining examples you’ve presented.

Measles is not dangerous nor lethal to healthy individuals in healthy environments. In 1960, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the U.S. death rate from measles was 0.036 per 100,000 measles cases. One in three hundred thousand people with measles died before the vaccine ever arrived. More people, in developed nations, have died from the murder derived vaccines than they have from measles. If you are malnourished, and living in an unsanitary environment, then any sickness, any cause of dehydration, may be dangerous or lethal. In such cases, vaccines will not be the solution to the problem.

In 1985 there was a measles outbreak in Corpus Christi, Texas. That outbreak touched a population that was 99% vaccinated. In 1986 there was a measles outbreak in Dane County, Wisconsin. That outbreak touched a population that was 96% vaccinated. In the year 2000, there was a measles outbreak in Nepal. That outbreak touched a population that was 100% vaccinated. In 2003, there was a measles outbreak in a Pennsylvania population that was 99% vaccinated.

The measles vaccine is neither necessary nor effective (I use the word “effective” with the common understanding of the word - not the understanding of “effective” which the pharmaceutical industry/corrupt governments use to deceive the unsuspecting public).

Rubella (German measles), just like measles, is a mild illness.  Rubella can be mistaken for a common cold and often goes undetected.  Rubella is very far from being “dangerous or lethal.”  The supposed concern for rubella is based on the potential for harm to the unborn child, and the child’s mother, when rubella leads to congenital rubella syndrome.  There is approximately an 8% potential for harm.  92% or more of congenital rubella cases are void of any harm and result in normal, healthy births.  

The rubella vaccine does not prevent congenital rubella syndrome.  1966 is the year that the U.S. government began keeping statistics for congenital rubella syndrome.  In 1966 there were 11 cases reported.  In 1967 there were 10 cases reported.  In 1968 there were 14 cases reported.  1969 was the year that the rubella vaccine was introduced.  The CDC recorded 31 cases in 1969.  In 1970 there was an even greater increase of 77 cases reported.  In 1971, there were 68 cases reported.  Each of the following years reported higher numbers than the initial 1966 report.  In 1991, there were 47 cases reported.  Eventually, in 1992, there were 11 cases reported.  In 1992, more than 20 years after the vaccine was introduced, the cases reported finally returned to the 1966 level of 11 cases.  Cases of congenital rubella syndrome increased after the vaccine was introduced.  

The Vatican approved Pontifical Academy for Life points to rubella as evidence for a moral obligation to be vaccinated.  The Pontifical Academy for Life uses rubella to support their promotion of murder derived vaccines because congenital rubella syndrome may threaten the life of the unborn child.  This is a dishonest attempt to manipulate the issue of grave sins accumulated in association with the murder derived vaccines that are presented as the miraculous providers of good health for the unborn child.  The murder derived vaccine is then praised for rescuing the unborn child from death and danger.  This is the Pontifical Academy for Life’s pathetic attempt to consider the life of the unborn child with their shallow concern for congenital rubella syndrome.  

Keep in mind, the Pontifical Academy for Life was commissioned, in 2003, by the Vatican, to offer a reflection on the morality of vaccines derived from the bodies of murdered children.  Many children are murdered until the useful body parts of one or two murdered children are finally derived for the development of unnecessary vaccines.  After many murdered children were discarded for their uselessness, one murdered child was selected for the development of the rubella vaccine.  

One of the scientists credited with playing a pivotal role in the invention of the rubella vaccine, Stanley Alan Plotkin, is a proud atheist who is pleased to cleverly express his hatred for God, the Church, and those who faithfully give their lives to God.  The rubella vaccine is one of the many vaccines that Mr. Plotkin has been associated with and handsomely rewarded for.  Mr. Plotkin is appropriately known as the “Godfather of Vaccines.”  Mr. Plotkin has admitted to experimenting on vulnerable populations such as orphans, children of “mothers in prison,” the mentally ill, and close to a million people under colonial rule - in the Belgian Congo.  This is the man behind the murder derived rubella vaccine which the Vatican approved Pontifical Academy for Life recommends for the faithful.

MORAL REFLECTIONS ON VACCINES PREPARED FROM CELLS DERIVED FROM ABORTED HUMAN FOETUSES

The matter in question regards the lawfulness of production, distribution and use of certain vaccines whose production is connected with acts of procured abortion.  It concerns vaccines containing live viruses which have been prepared from human cell lines of foetal origin, using tissues from aborted human foetuses as a source of such cells.  The best known, and perhaps the most important due to its vast distribution and its use on an almost universal level, is the vaccine against Rubella (German measles).  

Rubella and its vaccine

Rubella (German measles) is a viral illness caused by a Togavirus of the genus Rubivirus and is characterized by a maculopapular rash.  It consists of an infection which is common in infancy and has no clinical manifestations in one case out of two, is self-limiting and usually benign.  Nonetheless, the German measles virus is one of the most pathological infective agents for the embryo and foetus.  When a woman catches the infection during pregnancy, especially during the first trimester, the risk of foetal infection is very high (approximately 95%).  The virus replicates itself in the placenta and infects the foetus, causing the constellation of abnormalities denoted by the name of Congenital Rubella Syndrome.  For example, the severe epidemic of German measles which affected a huge part of the United States in 1964 thus caused 20,000 cases of congenital rubella, resulting in 11,250 abortions (spontaneous or surgical), 2,100 neonatal deaths, 11,600 cases of deafness, 3,580 cases of blindness, 1,800 cases of mental retardation.  It was this epidemic that pushed for the development and introduction on the market of an effective vaccine against rubella, thus permitting an effective prophylaxis against this infection.  

The severity of congenital rubella and the handicaps which it causes justify systematic vaccination against such a sickness.  It is very difficult, perhaps even impossible, to avoid the infection of a pregnant woman, even if the rubella infection of a person in contact with this woman is diagnosed from the first day of the eruption of the rash.  Therefore, one tries to prevent transmission by suppressing the reservoir of infection among children who have not been vaccinated, by means of early immunization of all children (universal vaccination).  Universal vaccination has resulted in a considerable fall in the incidence of congenital rubella, with a general incidence reduced to less than 5 cases per 100,000 livebirths.  Nevertheless, this progress remains fragile.  In the United States, for example, after an overwhelming reduction in the number of cases of congenital rubella to only a few cases annually, i.e. less than 0.1 per 100,000 live births, a new epidemic wave came on in 1991, with an incidence that rose to 0.8/100,000.  Such waves of resurgence of German measles were also seen in 1997 and in the year 2000.  These periodic episodes of resurgence make it evident that there is a persistent circulation of the virus among young adults, which is the consequence of insufficient vaccination coverage.  The latter situation allows a significant proportion of vulnerable subjects to persist, who are a source of periodic epidemics which put women in the fertile age group who have not been immunized at risk.  Therefore, the reduction to the point of eliminating congenital rubella is considered a priority in public health care.  

Where does that 20,000 number come from?  That number seems so big. So important.  It seems like that number should make us care.  It seems like it would be cruel for us not to care about 20,000 children.  Don’t we care about the unborn child?  Don’t we care about that child’s mother?  That 20,000 number usually does what it is intended to do.  Who intends that number?  Where does it come from?  

There is no authoritative source in 1964.  There is no authoritative source in 1965.  There is no authoritative source for a total count of congenital rubella syndrome cases until 1966.  1966 is the year that the United States government began keeping statistics for congenital rubella syndrome.  The earliest reference for that 20,000 number is a 1984 article, entitled The Opportunity and Obligation to Eliminate Rubella from the United States, written by Walter Orenstein.  Walter Orenstein happened to be the director of the United States National Immunization Program.  Walter Orenstein’s job was to promote vaccination.  Orenstein created the 20,000 number, 20 years after 1964, in the midst of the United States National Immunization Program’s big push for the Measles-Mumps-Rubella vaccine.  Another obvious example of the incestuous relationship between the pharmaceutical industry and corrupt government.  Orenstein’s article is no longer cited when the 20,000 number is trotted out for the promotion of murder derived vaccines.  That reference stays hidden in the shadows.  All that is needed is the magical adjective, “estimated,” used by all the magical health authorities.  20,000 is the number they’ve settled on to suit their deceptive purpose.  

If we were to accept this arbitrary number as a proven fact, which it is not, then knowing that 92% of congenital rubella syndrome cases result in normal, healthy births should lead us to conclude that of those 20,000 cases there were 1,600 that may have been detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the child and mother.  That is not the picture that is painted.  We are left to ponder the Pontifical Academy for Life’s presentation of 11,250 abortions (spontaneous or surgical), 2,100 neonatal deaths, 11,600 cases of deafness, 3,580 cases of blindness, 1,800 cases of mental retardation.  These unrelated scores carry more weight, for vaccination campaigns, than a more consistent accounting of the actual impact from a supposed 20,000 cases.  

The true figure of congenital rubella cases was more likely to have been less than 200 as the sub-group of congenital rubella syndrome cases were typically one in one thousand of rubella cases and rubella cases were typically one in one thousand of the population.  The United States population in 1964 was under 192 million.  192 million divided by 1,000 equals 192 thousand.  192 thousand divided by 1,000 equals 192.  A figure less than 200 is more coherent, with the available data that is not driven by the agenda of murder derived vaccine campaigns, and would explain why there is no historical record from the 1960s that notes a largescale outbreak of congenital rubella syndrome in the U.S..  

The 20,000 number was created to deceive.  The Pontifical Academy for Life uses the 20,000 number to further the deception.  

I am not aware of any murdered children associated with development of diptheria vaccines but would be grateful to be informed of that, if that is the case.  I do oppose the DTaP vaccine based on the horrible harm/deaths/evils that have spread from it.  Definitely one of the worst vaccines, historically.  Perhaps that can be a discussion/debate tabled for a later time.  Pentacel is a combination vaccine of DTaP plus hib and polio.  The polio portion of Pentacel uses MRC-5.  Diptheria and the fruits of the DTaP vaccine would be an interesting discussion/debate.  I do grant that, on the surface, diptheria appears to be a strong challenge against my opposition to vaccines.  For now, I will present the following points for consideration (these are reoccurring patterns with the vaccine controversy): The diptheria death rate was significantly declining long before the widespread use of a diptheria vaccine.  A diptheria vaccine was introduced in the late 1920s.  Widespread use of this modified toxoid occurred in the 1940s with DPT combination vaccine (Diptheria Pertussis Tetanus).  In the U.S., the diptheria mortality rate declined from 7.2 deaths per 10,000 in 1911 to .9 deaths per 10,000 in 1935.  That’s an 88 percent decline prior to widespread use of the diptheria vaccine.  Significant decline of pertussis began long before the pertussis vaccine was introduced.  From 1900 to 1935, the U.S. mortality rate from pertussis had declined by 79 percent.  The pertussis vaccine has been a proven failure and has caused much harm which I will be happy to expand upon, if interested, but for now I will just note that pertussis has been shown to be a significant contributor to SIDS among numerous other harms as well.  The decline of tetanus should be attributed to increased attention to wound hygiene.  The mid-1800’s reflects 205 cases of tetanus per 100,000 wounds among U.S. military personnel.  By the early 1900s the rate declined to 16 cases per 100,000 wounds.  That was a 92 percent decline.  The mid 1940s showed .44 cases per 100,000 wounds. (.04 tetanus rate). 

The unmerited praise for most, if not all, vaccines (an ethical version of the rabies vaccine seems to be a praise praiseworthy) is a shell game that requires a controlled narrative from the pharmaceutical industry/corrupt governments.  In most cases, if not all, sanitation, good nutrition and our natural immune systems, are the true solutions to diseases that the pharmaceutical industry/corrupt governments falsely credit evil vaccines with solving. 

It should be clearly affirmed, with the fire of God, that the grave evil of murder derived vaccines, and the sinfulness of anyone who refuses to set themselves apart from it, can never be morally acceptable by any calculation of numbers.  The question that the Vatican approved Pontifical Academy for Life first addressed concerning murder derived vaccine was whether or not there were certain conditions that would allow for the reception of these vaccines to be morally tolerable.  These evil vaccines were initially acknowledged to be associated with grave sin.  Of course, the Vatican now promotes these murder derived vaccines with reckless abandon. 

The material that deserves consideration is not remote to God.  God knows the name of His murdered child.  God knows the names of all those who have no ears to hear the cry of His precious child.  God sees through the complacency of those who enable the trafficking of murdered children.  The only acceptable consideration of numbers ought to be for the strict purpose of striking a blow to Satan and his minions.  

There is much repentance, penance, prayer and fasting to be done by all of us.  I remain grateful to recognize my most grievous faults that have contributed/contribute to this horrible situation.  We must turn away from murder derived vaccines and towards Christ our King.  We all deserve to die.  All are worthy of hell.  God gives His life to us.  Justice demands that we fight for God.  That we cherish His image.  That we lay our lives down for God.  Through, with, and in, God’s redemptive suffering.  

Our straight and narrow path is the same path that ancient, living saints, were called to walk.  Saint Athanasius reminds us of our faith.  May this reminder set us apart from the heresy of modernism, and direct us towards God, 

Before the divine sojourn of the Savior, even the holiest of men were afraid of death, and mourned the dead as those who perish.  But now that the Savior has raised His body, death is no longer terrible, but all those who believe in Christ tread it underfoot as nothing, and prefer to die rather than to deny their faith in Christ, knowing full well that when they die they do not perish, but live indeed and become incorruptible through the resurrection…  Even children hasten to die, and not men only, but women train themselves by bodily discipline to meet it.  So weak has death become that even women, who used to be taken in by it, mock at it now as a dead thing robbed of all its strength. (On the Incarnation)

[Norseman82]

On 5/11/2021 at 12:06 AM, Maccabee said:

Not interested in trading insults.  Will address the point you made regarding Pfizer and Moderna. 

Pfizer and Moderna used HEK 293 in the research and development of the vaccine.  The Pfizer and Moderna vaccine is associated with murder in its development.  It is not fitting to minimize this problem.

The position I have taken is that every vaccine that uses the fruits of murder in its development is evil (not good).  Every vaccine that uses the rotten fruits of murder in its development is, in some aspect, derived from mortal sin.  If you learned that murder was used in the research and development of the latest medicine/"miracle drug" then your moral values should compel you to abstain from receiving that medicine.  That mortal sin derived medicine is harmful to your soul.  There are very few people that can plead ignorance in this matter of murder derived vaccines. 

You seem to concede that murder was used in the development of all the COVID-19 vaccines that are currently available. 

The moral values we conform to should be much higher than what the Vatican, the Pontifical Academy for Life, the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and many Bishops have lowered themselves to, regarding the toleration of evil vaccines.

Pfizer, Moderna, and AstroZeneca used HEK 293 in the development of their COVID-19 vaccines.

Johnson & Johnson used Per C.6 in the development of the J&J COVID-19 vaccine.

HEK 293: Developed in 1972 or 1973 from aborted baby kidney cells genetically engineered combined with adenovirus. 293 is the number of the experiment. 

PER C6: Developed in 1995. Baby was aborted and frozen in 1985.  Derived from an 18-week-old, aborted baby in 1985. 

The Pontifical Academy for Life’s 2005 document, Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, admitted that it is sinful to use aborted fetal cells for scientific research.  

Though the Congregation for The Doctrine of Faith offers the following teaching from their 2008 document entitled Instruction Dignitas Personae on Certain Bioethical Questions:

In this regard, the criterion of independence as it has been formulated by some ethics committees is not sufficient. According to this criterion, the use of “biological material” of illicit origin would be ethically permissible provided there is a clear separation between those who, on the one hand, produce, freeze and cause the death of embryos and, on the other, the researchers involved in scientific experimentation. The criterion of independence is not sufficient to avoid a contradiction in the attitude of the person who says that he does not approve of the injustice perpetrated by others, but at the same time accepts for his own work the “biological material” which the others have obtained by means of that injustice. When the illicit action is endorsed by the laws which regulate healthcare and scientific research, it is necessary to distance oneself from the evil aspects of that system in order not to give the impression of a certain toleration or tacit acceptance of actions which are gravely unjust.  Any appearance of acceptance would in fact contribute to the growing indifference to, if not the approval of, such actions in certain medical and political circles.

It is mediocre for the Vatican to take a stance against each contribution to the development of vaccines derived from murdered children, but then lack the courage to challenge the reception of these evil vaccines.  This is the much-needed conscientious objection that would truly oppose this abomination. 

In spite of the many deficiencies found in the 2005 Pontifical Academy for Life document, Moral Reflections About Vaccines Prepared From Cells of Aborted Human Fetuses, there was still a moral guideline that prevents the faithful from receiving murder derived vaccines.  According to the document, for murder derived vaccines to be received, the following four conditions must be met:

1.     Grave risk to health.

2.     No moral alternative.

3.     The recipient of the vaccine or the parents of the child that receives the vaccine must make known their objections to the many evils associated with the murder derived vaccines.

4.     Those who accept murder derived vaccines must actively work towards moral alternatives. 

Only when these four conditions are met, only then is it morally permissible to receive these evil vaccines.  These four conditions have never been met. 

1.     Mild childhood diseases are not a grave risk to health.

2.     There are moral alternatives but the pharmaceutical industry refuses to provide them. 

3.     Rarely, if ever, do those who are willing to receive murder derived vaccines make any objections known.  If they did make those objections known then they might stir up enough moral courage to reject them.

4.     Neither the Vatican, nor those who follow the Vatican’s mediocre moral reflections concerning murder derived vaccines, are actively working towards moral alternatives. 

Though, under certain conditions, it may be tolerable to accept murder derived vaccines, these vaccines are never capable of being accepted as moral goods.  They are evil.  They are Satanic.  They pose grave danger to your embodied soul.  Vaccines derived from murdered young ones are not moral goods. 

Any and every golden-calf-vaccine associated with murdered offspring, murdered children sacrificed for the lie of Satan, any and every vaccine of this kind, should be destroyed and abolished.  This should be the clear statement of the Pontifical Academy for Life, were it worthy of the name. 

Any vaccine that is associated with murder in its development is evil.  Every COVID-19 vaccine that is currently being pushed to the masses, has been derived from a murder in the process of its development.  The COVID-19 vaccines are evil.  The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre.  What say you?

I posted a reply but neglected to quote your comment.  Please consider my above reply which begins with "Not interested in trading insults." 

Thank you. 

In Christ.

OK, let's "cut to the chase", so to speak.  Are you saying (or implying) that any Catholic that has taken a vaccine has been duped by the Vatican into going to hell?  A simple yes / no answer please (without huge "document dumps" that will force dUSt to get a second mortgage for the extra server space needed).  

[Maccabee]

52 minutes ago, Norseman82 said:

OK, let's "cut to the chase", so to speak.  Are you saying (or implying) that any Catholic that has taken a vaccine has been duped by the Vatican into going to hell?  A simple yes / no answer please (without huge "document dumps" that will force dUSt to get a second mortgage for the extra server space needed).  

No.

Is there dishonest/deceptive/mediocre morality coming out of the Vatican/Vatican approved Pontifical Academy for Life/etc., regarding this issue of murder derived vaccines?

Yes.

Is it possible that you may have some blind spots with this topic?

I think so.

Are you or I going to end up in hell?

I hope not but definitely a possibility.

I am willing to have a serious debate/thought exchange with you or anyone else who may come across this thread (email/"live" debate or discussion/private or public). 

This does not seem to be the proper forum for my interest.  Stepping away from this forum now.

maccabee@vaxsanity.com is where I can be contacted.  

All the best to you and yours.

In Christ,

Maccabee

This does not seem to be the proper forum for my interest.  Stepping away from this forum now.

maccabee@vaxsanity.com is where I can be contacted - from anyone who comes across this thread and is interested in having a respectful debate/thought exchange (privately or publicly).  

All the best to you and yours.

In Christ,

Maccabee

VaxSanity.com

[Anastasia]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:24 PM, Maccabee said:

The moral positions on vaccines in general, and especially the COVID-19 vaccines, is mediocre.  What say you?

Already said
Communion of abandonment
 

[Peace]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:06 AM, Maccabee said:

The position I have taken is that every vaccine that uses the fruits of murder in its development is evil (not good).  Every vaccine that uses the rotten fruits of murder in its development is, in some aspect, derived from mortal sin. 

The "fruits of murder" is a hopelessly vague standard. You are going to have to throw away practically all modern science and medicine, every item of food on your shelf, and go live in the wilderness if that is your standard.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2020/12/12-things-less-remote-cooperation-in-evil-than-covid-vaccines/

Put down your cell phone, throw away your computer, go live in the dessert, and then write a handwritten letter to @dUSt with your objection so that he can post it on the site for you.

Otherwise you are being a hypocrite.

[Norseman82]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:31 PM, Maccabee said:

No.

Is there dishonest/deceptive/mediocre morality coming out of the Vatican/Vatican approved Pontifical Academy for Life/etc., regarding this issue of murder derived vaccines?

Yes.

Is it possible that you may have some blind spots with this topic?

I think so.

Are you or I going to end up in hell?

I hope not but definitely a possibility.

I am willing to have a serious debate/thought exchange with you or anyone else who may come across this thread (email/"live" debate or discussion/private or public). 

This does not seem to be the proper forum for my interest.  Stepping away from this forum now.

maccabee@vaxsanity.com is where I can be contacted.  

All the best to you and yours.

In Christ,

Maccabee

This does not seem to be the proper forum for my interest.  Stepping away from this forum now.

maccabee@vaxsanity.com is where I can be contacted - from anyone who comes across this thread and is interested in having a respectful debate/thought exchange (privately or publicly).  

All the best to you and yours.

In Christ,

Maccabee

VaxSanity.com

I still don't know what's up with all those old cigarette ads on that website.  

Question:  what are your credentials / qualifications?  Doctor?  Clergy?  Scientist?

[ReasonableFaith]

There is a Big Brother is watching: COVID-1984 video with a hypnotic spiral on the homepage which is just as interesting as the cigarette adds. Perhaps it helps put the ads in perspective/context.

It would seems the main purpose of the website is to offer videos of largely discredited and/or sanctioned medical professionals and scientists, to provide a platform for the dissemination of their, at best, dubious ‘scientific’ findings, and amplify their propaganda.