Minority attempt to subvert and command

[BarbTherese]

Indeed, heartfelt prayer for what is unfolding in the USA capital.  We are receiving live telecasts from Washington and I will be praying daily, as I have been since Trump took the Presidency.  Since then, the moving finger kept writing and having writ, moved on.............cause and effect in process........

Only my two cents: What is happening in Washington, for one only at this point, is an attack on democracy and on the flagship of democracy, the United States of America, throughout the world.

History shows that about all a disgruntled mob needs is leadership.  They found this in Donald Trump as his volatile words are echoed throughout the mob and upheld by them as their motivation and catch cry.  Trump is a talented salesman and he identified his market (including Catholic anti-abortion movement's quite considerable votes I imagine) to take him to power and invested in his identified market using advertising skills.  In all probability if Washington for one is returned to law and order, it will not be the end of attacks on democracy I feel.  Out of the mob will arise a sort of under-leadership perhaps marshalling groups under them and finding a sense of unity of the various groups in Donald Trump and his propaganda investment using his considerable advertising skills. 

Leadership out of the mob will promote the initial Trump volatile words as motivation and catch cry to inflame mob action, even violence.  Donald Trump will probably continue to tweet his inflammatory comments from a golf course somewhere or other. 

Since the mob attack in Washington, the Trump tweets have been mixed messages - and quite obviously so.   

Trump is the skilled puppet master pulling the strings of dissenters from the democratic process.  Some probably do believe his lies, other are using them to their own purposes.

 

 

 

             

Doctrine of God's Permissive Will (see Catholic Catechism  http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm  Scroll down to "V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE")

As a Catholic, I do believe that the good that can come out of an evil situation permitted by God might be the very action one (or a group) undertakes to struggle against that evil.  Such action would evidence the Fruits of The Holy Spirit: 

https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic-resources/scripture-and-tradition/catholic-basics/catholic-beliefs-and-practices/fruits-of-the-holy-spirit/This passage in Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 7:17-20)helps us to understand the Fruits of the Holy Spirit, which are the observable behaviors of people who have allowed the grace of the Holy Spirit to be effective in them. The tradition of the Church lists 12 fruits:

charity, generosity, joy, gentleness, peace, faithfulness, patience, modesty, kindness, self-control, goodness and chastity

 https://thecatholicspirit.com/faith/focus-on-faith/ask-father-mike/gods-will-includes-complex-process-making-choices/

Edited January 7, 2021 by BarbaraTherese

[Lilllabettt]

4 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Indeed, heartfelt prayer for what is unfolding in the USA capital.  We are receiving live telecasts from Washington and I will be praying daily, as I have been since Trump took the Presidency.  Since then, the moving finger kept writing and having writ, moved on.............cause and effect in process........

Only my two cents: What is happening in Washington, for one only at this point, is an attack on democracy and on the flagship of democracy, the United States of America, throughout the world.

History shows that about all a disgruntled mob needs is leadership.  They found this in Donald Trump as his volatile words are echoed throughout the mob and upheld by them as their motivation and catch cry.  Trump is a talented salesman and he identified his market (including Catholic anti-abortion movement's quite considerable votes I imagine) to take him to power and invested in his identified market using advertising skills.  In all probability if Washington for one is returned to law and order, it will not be the end of attacks on democracy I feel.  Out of the mob will arise a sort of under-leadership perhaps marshalling groups under them and finding a sense of unity of the various groups in Donald Trump and his propaganda investment using his considerable advertising skills. 

Leadership out of the mob will promote the initial Trump volatile words as motivation and catch cry to inflame mob action, even violence.  Donald Trump will probably continue to tweet his inflammatory comments from a golf course somewhere or other. 

Since the mob attack in Washington, the Trump tweets have been mixed messages - and quite obviously so.   

Trump is the skilled puppet master pulling the strings of dissenters from the democratic process.  Some probably do believe his lies, other are using them to their own purposes.

 

 

 

             

Doctrine of God's Permissive Will (see Catholic Catechism  http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm  Scroll down to "V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE")

As a Catholic, I do believe that the good that can come out of an evil situation permitted by God might be the very action one (or a group) undertakes to struggle against that evil.  Such action would evidence the Fruits of The Holy Spirit: 

https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic-resources/scripture-and-tradition/catholic-basics/catholic-beliefs-and-practices/fruits-of-the-holy-spirit/This passage in Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 7:17-20)helps us to understand the Fruits of the Holy Spirit, which are the observable behaviors of people who have allowed the grace of the Holy Spirit to be effective in them. The tradition of the Church lists 12 fruits:

charity, generosity, joy, gentleness, peace, faithfulness, patience, modesty, kindness, self-control, goodness and chastity

 https://thecatholicspirit.com/faith/focus-on-faith/ask-father-mike/gods-will-includes-complex-process-making-choices/

 

The truth is, it's a nonstory.  A "mostly peaceful" protest with a small contingent of bad guys which tried and failed to use violence to achieve their vision of justice. (This is tongue in cheek just to be clear. Imo anyone who mass demonstrates during a pandemic is a bad guy.)

One person lost her life - frankly, she knew the risks. I feel badly for the cops who had to be there and be exposed to the virus. Other than that, the business of government ... was delayed for a few hours. Boo hoo.  

Since summer, all across America, violent mobs have been assembling to bend democratically elected governments to their demands. In large part succeeding

 

[Guest]

With respect, it might be a matter of perspective, but I do not regard current events in America as a non-story.  To me, it is an unprecedented attack on the democratic process and an unfolding situation. History will mark it. I very much doubt that unfolding situation will come to a conclusion on 20th January 2021, while nothing is beyond prayer and Hope.

 

[Lilllabettt]

8 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

With respect, it might be a matter of perspective, but I do not regard current events in America as a non-story.  To me, it is an unprecedented attack on the democratic process and an unfolding situation. History will mark it. I very much doubt that unfolding situation will come to a conclusion on 20th January 2021, while nothing is beyond prayer and Hope.

 

"unprecedented attack on democratic process"
I mean, that's probably just because of the location. Right?

 I get that in some respects.

When "certain" neighborhoods and the urban core are burned to the ground, it's less breathtaking because we kind of expect that, in those places, yes? Whereas in our fine halls of Congress, lack of decorum results in gasps. (This is racist on our part, by the way).

While I get it, it is silly that we have forgotten the instructions from this summer. A riot is the language of the unheard. We must understand their anti-social violence and our ultimate responsibility for it. When people riot to effect their vision of justice it is called "direct action."  This was a mostly peaceful group of people taking "direct action."

I'm sorry some property was damaged but they have insurance, I'm sure. Lol.

[Anomaly]

9 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

With respect, it might be a matter of perspective, but I do not regard current events in America as a non-story.  To me, it is an unprecedented attack on the democratic process and an unfolding situation. History will mark it. I very much doubt that unfolding situation will come to a conclusion on 20th January 2021, while nothing is beyond prayer and Hope.

 

With all due respect, you’re a little old lady, a hemisphere away, getting her news through a biased media.   

The violence is not acceptable, but at the root of the discontent is how different sides of legitimate complaints and issues are either vilified or championed solely for dramatic effect in order to garner viewers for revenue.   Politics take advantage of that as well.  

Trump is not an evil genius, nor are all his supporters rabid rednecks.   Biden and Pelosi are not evil geniuses, nor are their supporters rabid communists. 

But portrayal of either side as evil and rabid fills rallies and provides viewers.   Unfortunately, the created dramatics in the news also exacerbates emotions and creates more drama with the rabid antics of a few.    

It will be fine.   Australia should worry more about China, not US politics, even though it’s not as exciting.   

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Lilllabettt said:

"unprecedented attack on democratic process"
I mean, that's probably just because of the location. Right?

 I get that in some respects.

When "certain" neighborhoods and the urban core are burned to the ground, it's less breathtaking because we kind of expect that, in those places, yes? Whereas in our fine halls of Congress, lack of decorum results in gasps. (This is racist on our part, by the way).

While I get it, it is silly that we have forgotten the instructions from this summer. A riot is the language of the unheard. We must understand their anti-social violence and our ultimate responsibility for it. When people riot to effect their vision of justice it is called "direct action."  This was a mostly peaceful group of people taking "direct action."

I'm sorry some property was damaged but they have insurance, I'm sure. Lol.

Well I thought it was fairly breathtaking earlier this year as well. Just because we recognize one evil does not mean that we have made light of another.

There is a substantive difference between attempting to steal a bottle of Alize from a liquor store and setting a polling station on fire. I think you can understand that. 

I think the location matters at least insofar as the functions that are carried out in those locations differ. It's not merely the optics of "the ghetto" versus "the fine halls". There is a difference between rioting in the streets and invading a congressional building while actual vote-taking is taking place, in order to stop the votes from taking place. The latter is a much more direct attack on the democratic process than the former (although the former can be considered an attack as well).

 

10 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

One person lost her life - frankly, she knew the risks. I feel badly for the cops who had to be there and be exposed to the virus. Other than that, the business of government ... was delayed for a few hours. Boo hoo. 

The police don't know the risks? Look, if you are gonna suggest that it doesn't matter that she lost her life because she knew the risks of the activity that she was engaging in, then you could say the same thing about any police officer who his harmed while doing the job. Oh that cop got shot? Well, that is a risk that comes with the job they signed up for. Oh well.

Now obviously I don't think that sort of attitude towards police officers is acceptable. But it seems to be the same sort of attitude that you are displaying towards the woman who got shot.

[Lilllabettt]

38 minutes ago, Peace said:

Well I thought it was fairly breathtaking earlier this year as well. Just because we recognize one evil does not mean that we have made light of another.

There is a substantive difference between attempting to steal a bottle of Alize from a liquor store and setting a polling station on fire. I think you can understand that. 

I think the location matters at least insofar as the functions that are carried out in those locations differ. It's not merely the optics of "the ghetto" versus "the fine halls". There is a difference between rioting in the streets and invading a congressional building while actual vote-taking is taking place, in order to stop the votes from taking place. The latter is a much more direct attack on the democratic process than the former (although the former can be considered an attack as well).

 

The police don't know the risks? Look, if you are gonna suggest that it doesn't matter that she lost her life because she knew the risks of the activity that she was engaging in, then you could say the same thing about any police officer who his harmed while doing the job. Oh that cop got shot? Well, that is a risk that comes with the job they signed up for. Oh well.

Now obviously I don't think that sort of attitude towards police officers is acceptable. But it seems to be the same sort of attitude that you are displaying towards the woman who got shot.

"She knew the risks" is often said by imbeciles about police officers. Breanna Taylor knew the risks of her bf's drug lord lifestyle, Rayshard brooks knew the risks of being wanted for rape and breaking his restraining order, the Karen/Becky who died breaking and entering Congress knew the risks of doing crime. They played a stupid game and won their stupid prize. Police who die on duty, like doctors that die of covid, aren't engaging in antisocial behavior, that's the difference. The stupid game police were playing yesterday was called ( if we accept the breathless pearl clutching narrative) "defending America from an attack on our democracy." What morons they are to do that, right? lol.  

(Although I agree it was a dumb game to play because you all are mostly Not Worth It, to say the least. I guess since the "attack" yesterday was such a serious threat, better thank your lucky stars there are still people dumb enough willing to play on your behalf.)

That there's a need to explain any of this is just exhibit m or N why we as a species don't deserve to survive.

I understand that karen/becky was unarmed when she died and SHe WaS A vEtErAn so... I wonder if we are going to be urged endlessly to say her name? (What is it?) Are trumpkins going to paint murals of her everywhere. Will the rednecks put her on the cover of Southern home? Will there be a coordinated national media campaign to subvert the justice system and have people arrested? 

 

 

 

[Peace]

19 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

"She knew the risks" is often said by imbeciles about police officers. Breanna Taylor knew the risks of her bf's drug lord lifestyle, Rayshard brooks knew the risks of being wanted for rape and breaking his restraining order, the Karen/Becky who died breaking and entering Congress knew the risks of doing crime. They played a stupid game and won their stupid prize. Police who die on duty, like doctors that die of covid, aren't engaging in antisocial behavior, that's the difference. The stupid game police were playing yesterday was called ( if we accept the breathless pearl clutching narrative) "defending America from an attack on our democracy." What morons they are to do that, right? lol.  

Well now you are just switching up your rationales I think. First, your rationale for being apathetic about her death was because "she knew the risk of her activity". Now you have switched your rationale to essentially a form of "she deserved what she got because the risky behavior she engaged in was immoral (as opposed to the moral risky behavior of police officers)". But just because someone is engaging in immoral behavior does not justify a Christian in being apathetic about the person's death. We don't value the lives of only people who act like Mother Teresa (or whomever your favorite saint is).

19 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

(Although I agree it was a dumb game to play because you all are mostly Not Worth It, to say the least. I guess since the "attack" yesterday was such a serious threat, better thank your lucky stars there are still people dumb enough willing to play on your behalf.)

That there's a need to explain any of this is just exhibit m or N why we as a species don't deserve to survive.

I understand that karen/becky was unarmed when she died and SHe WaS A vEtErAn so... I wonder if we are going to be urged endlessly to say her name? (What is it?) Are trumpkins going to paint murals of her everywhere. Will the rednecks put her on the cover of Southern home? Will there be a coordinated national media campaign to subvert the justice system and have people arrested?

This is more of a rant than anything. Happy New Year!

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, Peace said:

Well now you are just switching up your rationales I think. First, your rationale for being apathetic about her death was because "she knew the risk of her activity". Now you have switched your rationale to essentially a form of "she deserved what she got because the risky behavior she engaged in was immoral (as opposed to the moral risky behavior of police officers)". But just because someone is engaging in immoral behavior does not justify a Christian in being apathetic about the person's death. We don't value the lives of only people who act like Mother Teresa (or whomever your favorit

 

It's not apathy. I'm sorry she was dumb. I hope her personal culpability was limited and she had time to make her peace with God before her death. But I'm also glad she died rather than a hostile mob penetrate the last door between them and the VP. Its kinda like when bin laden died. Obv not exactly the same but. No glee, just relief and sorry it had to be that way. It was her choice. Generally if you mess with the secret service there is a good chance they will put a large hole in your chest. Her death had the intended effect, too. If you watch the video you can almost audibly hear the other rioters reconsider their life choices.  

[MIKolbe]

Thank goodness no one there took a knee... then it *really* woulda been horrible...

[Lilllabettt]

1 minute ago, MIKolbe said:

Thank goodness no one there took a knee... then it *really* woulda been horrible...

No one took a knee because they knew our oppressive and unjust law enforcement system would never allow itself to be dragged repeatedly at a predetermined time on a nationwide television broadcast...  let alone on the big stage of Congress. Right. Because they are so oppressive.

Although I know it's very sad when challenging the status quo has mild social consequences such as an employer asking you to do it on your own time. (Stage whisper): injustice.

Just wondering do you know the dead Karen/Becky's non cracker name? Aren't you going to urge me to say it repeatedly? 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Anomaly said:

With all due respect, you’re a little old lady

Yep! I am indeed an old lady, but not all I am by a long shot - and not so little either!   But thank you for the flattery. 

[Didacus]

I sincerely wish Trump would have stayed president...  oh well, try again in 2024...?

[Peace]

24 minutes ago, Didacus said:

I sincerely wish Trump would have stayed president...  oh well, try again in 2024...?

What is it that you like about him?

[Ash Wednesday]

As much as I support anyone's right to protest peacefully, I can't get on board or accept any justification or excuse for the way things went the way that it did. 

The irony of the information age is that people can converge in echo chambers and tailor their information only to what they want to believe is true.  And because of it I think people are starting to radicalize each other, and themselves. I don't think it's any coincidence that a lot of this has paralelled the rise of the internet and then social media. 

I have a monster headache so I think that's all I'm going to say about it for now.