More Carmelite Monasteries closing

[Anastasia]

To sum up: do I think that the problems which inevitably arise in the monastic life should be addressed? Yes, absolutely. Yet, at the same time I firmly believe it must be done in a way that does not compromise the monastic life tending towards its goal, a union with Christ. Because only those who know that monastic life from inside and struggle towards that ultimate goal can know what is helpful and what is not it is them who must initiate and make necessary changes.

[rosamundi]

15 hours ago, Anastasia said:

And, being combined with the facts of forcing other Carmels to make foundations to me it looks like the whole issue is very much about control:

the Carmelite Rule specifies a maximum number of nuns in a monastery. The Valparaiso Carmel and its daughter houses are experiencing such numbers of vocations that they rapidly get too big according to the rule, so "forced" here means "having to make new foundations because the existing Carmel is too big per the Carmelite Rule", not in the sense of the Archbishop or whoever ordering the nuns to make another foundation whether they want to or not.

Edited December 1, 2020 by rosamundi
typo - Rue instead of rule

[Sponsa-Christi]

Re. Cor Orans...granted, if the Pope had personally commissioned me to write it, I might not have come to all the same conclusions as the drafters of this document did. E.g., nine years does seem kind of long for initial formation.*

*(Although even here, one of those years is spent as an "aspirant," and I assume a woman could be considered an aspirant from the time of her very first contact with the monastery as a discerner, so practically it might only be eight years of post-entrance formation.)

Still, reading it as a canon lawyer, nothing in the document seemed truly outrageous to me. My impression is that Rome had been seeing problems in cloistered communities that followed certain long-standing patterns, and they were doing their level best to try to address these problematic patterns. Sometimes, issues get to the point where there is no perfect solution or pain-free option. 

[Anastasia]

8 hours ago, rosamundi said:

The Valparaiso Carmel and its daughter houses are experiencing such numbers of vocations that they rapidly get too big according to the rule, so "forced" here means "having to make new foundations because the existing Carmel is too big per the Carmelite Rule", not in the sense of the Archbishop or whoever ordering the nuns to make another foundation whether they want to or not.

Thank you for a clarification.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Anastasia

[graciandelamadrededios]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:52 AM, rosamundi said:

the Carmelite Rule specifies a maximum number of nuns in a monastery. The Valparaiso Carmel and its daughter houses are experiencing such numbers of vocations that they rapidly get too big according to the rule, so "forced" here means "having to make new foundations because the existing Carmel is too big per the Carmelite Rule", not in the sense of the Archbishop or whoever ordering the nuns to make another foundation whether they want to or not.

The Carmelite Rule does not specify the number of nuns in the monastery but the Constitutions written by St. Teresa does.

[rosamundi]

1 hour ago, graciandelamadrededios said:

The Carmelite Rule does not specify the number of nuns in the monastery but the Constitutions written by St. Teresa does.

Thank you for the correction.

[graciandelamadrededios]

10 minutes ago, rosamundi said:

Thank you for the correction.

You're welcome!

The Constitution stipulates that maximum number of Nuns in a monastery is 21.  However, these numbers can be increased in the event that a future foundation is being planned hence more postulants can be admitted.  I will have to check my copy if 21 will include the extern sisters or excluding the extern sisters.

[Guest]

If a Carmelite Monastery for example closes, I don't think that any remaining nuns are then out of monastic life.  I think, they can always transfer to another Carmelite community?  That would be difficult especially for nuns many years in a particular community. 

I do know of one Carmelite community where an elder nun has had to go and live in a nursing home (same community professed over 50 years).  Her care needs were too complex for her fellow sisters. It was a real jolt for her and she embraced her (psychological?) cross in the Carmelite spirit.  Now some years down the line she is happy and at Peace in that home. I do think that probably it was a very difficult transition time for her, although one would never have guessed it from her demeanor.  I don't think that applies in every case where some necessity means a nun or nuns are transferred elsewhere for some reason.  The cross to some degree or other is intrinsic to all the vocations, I would think, in Holy Orders, consecrated and laity?  One can never know when the cross might become a very heavy burden indeed.  While not waiting for it!  

Apologies if the above subjects have already been covered.

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

RULE

AND

CONSTITUTIONS

of the Discalced Nuns of the

Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary

of Mount Carmel

adapted according to the Directives

of the Second Vatican Council

and the Canonical Norns in force

and approved by the Apostolic See

in the Year 1991

 

Part I – THE DISCALCED CARMELITE

NUNS’ VOCATION IN THE CHURCH

 

 

Chapter 5

 

COMMUNITY LIFE

 

Single category of nuns

and their number

 

91.       So that the Teresian community may keep its character as a little “College of Christ” and not lose the aspect that Holy Mother wished for it, no monastery will have more than twenty-one sisters.

 

 

Part III – THE ORGANIZATION AND GOVERNMENT

OF THE MONASTERIES

 

 

Chapter 1

 

THE CANONICAL STATUS OF THE MONASTERIES

AND THEIR ERECTION AND SUPPRESSION

 

The erection and suppression

of monasteries

 

 

205.    The monastery or monasteries which undertake a new foundation must have a sufficient number of nuns to provide for the new house without undermining their own strength and compromising their future.

            In order to proceed to erect a new monastery, there must be at least eight religious, not counting the postulants and extern sisters, of whom six must be chapter sisters.  They must have freely accepted the transfer to the new monastery and must be endowed with appropriate spiritual qualities and sufficiently prepared for the environmental and cultural conditions of the new foundation.

[Chiquitunga]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:54 PM, Graciela said:

Loughrea, Galway, Ireland Carmel (closing after 340 years!)  https://www.irishcatholic.com/deep-sorrow-as-carmelite-convent-closes-after-340-years/ 

This one is particularly sad for me to see! I had a lovely visit there some years ago. The Discalced Carmelite Friars have a really beautiful old church & friary across the road as well. I wonder what they will do with the monastery! The Friars in San Jose, CA originally came from Loughrea. 

I haven’t visited PM for a while! I feel funny to post about my life so much publicly, but in short a Carmel accepted me, and if and when all obstacles are removed, I can go. But happy just to be at daily Mass for now. Who knows what life will bring! Just happy to live in God’s grace!

Graciela, remember that one thread years ago where we were listing for fun which Carmels we visited in different cities, like for Mass or a quick visit? That was fun! Carmel is special. I hope you are doing well! I was very happy to see your name here as well as all other old PMers, and new ones too ! I want to add a blush emoji but forget how. Ah and the old nun emojis here! Loved those! Or like 10 plus years ago, weren’t we calling them emoticons? *blush*

 

[Graciela]

Chiqui! Great to see your post- when I didn't see posts from you, I figured that you had entered Carmel.   I only check in with PM occasionally, with only interest in things Carmelite.  Once a Carmelite, always one.

Happy Gaudete Sunday tomorrow.

[andibc]

Chiquitunga, I remember you so well! When my daughters were discerning, I would read the threads here occasionally. They didn't visit the board, but it was helpful to me. They did enter and one is now a solemnly professed Carmelite. I've always appreciated your and Graciela knowledge and links to all things Carmel. It's wonderful to read that you will be entering!

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, andibc said:

It's wonderful to read that you (Chiquitunga) will be entering! (Carmel)

 

I remember her too.

[Harmony]

What's happening with these sisters? Are they being merged into other Carmelite monasteries?

Especially wondering if like the NH and the Erie sisters could merge or something, since they are geographically not that far apart, and thus save one of their locations.

[valleri]

this is sad, but a lot of these carmelites refuse to keep up with the updates in the church. we need orders following modern rules and practices, not super old ones