Integralism in Three Sentences

[Nihil Obstat]

Pater Edmund Waldstein, OCist

https://thejosias.com/2016/10/17/integralism-in-three-sentences/

Catholic Integralism is a tradition of thought that, rejecting the liberal separation of politics from concern with the end of human life, holds that political rule must order man to his final goal. Since, however, man has both a temporal and an eternal end, integralism holds that there are two powers that rule him: a temporal power and a spiritual power. And since man’s temporal end is subordinated to his eternal end, the temporal power must be subordinated to the spiritual power.

[MIKolbe]

makes sense

[Jaime]

those are really long sentences

[Nihil Obstat]

2 hours ago, Jaime said:

those are really long sentences

Three of them though. As a musician you can count at least that high.

[picchick]

So how do we make this happen in today's world where Catholicism is not the main religion?

[Lilllabettt]

4 minutes ago, picchick said:

So how do we make this happen in today's world where Catholicism is not the main religion?

Violence? Or a bake-off?

[picchick]

Just now, Lilllabettt said:

Violence? Or a bake-off?

Crusade....with bread and cookies!!

[Lilllabettt]

5 minutes ago, picchick said:

Crusade....with bread and cookies!!

Right! Armed conflict or baked goods, why not both????

[chrysostom]

Pastries or pasta?

[MIKolbe]

14 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Three of them though. As a musician you can count at least that high.

I think you're being kind....

[Nihil Obstat]

17 hours ago, picchick said:

So how do we make this happen in today's world where Catholicism is not the main religion?

That is a great question and I do not think there is going to be a neat, straightforward answer. The Western political system is broken by not a couple's decades of problems but by 200-300 years of fundamentally flawed philosophical thought becoming not only dominant but practically universal.

So on the one hand, I would say that we need to work on the local levels to at least create an environment more friendly to classical political thought. Personally, in our families, in our churches, among our friends, we should be going back to our philosophical roots and trying to recover what can be recovered. Our notions of liberty, of the proper relations between Church and State, concepts of Telos and the common good, we should be studying these ourselves so that we can give a good account of ourselves.

Personally, in my own life I have seen some openness to some of these principles. Ironically there is a large contingent of very conservative Catholics who are very hostile to these pre-enlightenment concepts. American conservatives tend to be strongly wedded to the liberal conception of liberty and individualism. On the other hand among young people in my experience there is a growing disillusionment with the liberal-democratic orthodoxy, and I think rightly so as it is beginning to show its ultimate impoverishment of human society. Maybe we are pushing the principles to their breaking point. Hard to say.

[picchick]

On 11/6/2020 at 11:46 AM, Nihil Obstat said:

That is a great question and I do not think there is going to be a neat, straightforward answer. The Western political system is broken by not a couple's decades of problems but by 200-300 years of fundamentally flawed philosophical thought becoming not only dominant but practically universal.

So on the one hand, I would say that we need to work on the local levels to at least create an environment more friendly to classical political thought. Personally, in our families, in our churches, among our friends, we should be going back to our philosophical roots and trying to recover what can be recovered. Our notions of liberty, of the proper relations between Church and State, concepts of Telos and the common good, we should be studying these ourselves so that we can give a good account of ourselves.

Personally, in my own life I have seen some openness to some of these principles. Ironically there is a large contingent of very conservative Catholics who are very hostile to these pre-enlightenment concepts. American conservatives tend to be strongly wedded to the liberal conception of liberty and individualism. On the other hand among young people in my experience there is a growing disillusionment with the liberal-democratic orthodoxy, and I think rightly so as it is beginning to show its ultimate impoverishment of human society. Maybe we are pushing the principles to their breaking point. Hard to say.

This is similar to what my thoughts were.  I also think all this starts at home within a smaller scale.  I think we need to live our lives faithfully and let that light shine in our community.  

[Ash Wednesday]

Nihil sums up pretty well why I have long felt that the Constitution has wrongly been viewed almost as a religion, though many, even Christians -- treat it like it is. As it was born out of the likes of the Age of Enlightenment, in itself, it is not without flaws that are manifesting today. 

Though people point out that the founding fathers were Christian, there is an element of truth to it, but given the influences at the time, their orthodoxy was varied, complicated, and at times, pretty murky. 

[Nihil Obstat]

37 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

Though people point out that the founding fathers were Christian, there is an element of truth to it, but given the influences at the time, their orthodoxy was varied, complicated, and at times, pretty murky. 

I think that is being extremely generous. 

[Ash Wednesday]

"IDK, George, heard he was feeling pretty deist today"