Pope endorses civil unions for gay couples?

[Peace]

11 hours ago, Anastasia said:

I think I understood why the unfortunate case of prosecution for being truthful perked me up – because it affirmed the existence of the Truth which was buried under various ambiguities. It is a also a clear “fruit” of the Pope saying something murky out of the desire “to be nice” and then of course not clarifying it despite the distress of the Roman Catholics (he cannot clarify it because if he does the play of “being nice” will be lost).

Nonsense. A clarification has already been sent out. @dUSt posted it.

And your statement that PF is merely "saying something murky" out of some vague "desire to be nice" is complete trash.

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Now all the world can say (and people do) “Your Pope is pro-”homosexual unions”.

That's irrelevant. People have taken the words of the Bible to justify racism, slavery, and many other terrible things. If the words of Sacred Scripture can be manipulated by evil-doers, the same is true for the words spoken by every person on the planet.

Now all the world can say that the Eastern Orthodox Church is pro-divorce, if you want to play that BS game.

[tate4242]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:40 PM, linate said:

 

“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “You can't kick someone out of a family, nor make their life miserable for this. What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.”

"While serving as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis endorsed civil unions for gay couples as an alternative to same-sex marriages. However, he had never come out publicly in favor of civil unions as pope."

"Catholic Church teaching holds that gays must be treated with dignity and respect but that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” A 2003 document from the Vatican’s doctrine office stated that the church’s respect for gays “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.” That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor."

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/nation-world/pope-endorses-same-sex-civil-unions-in-new-documentary-film/507-f525e738-2ef1-4a35-8c00-053e160432df?fbclid=IwAR2XkrsJyV29cqiD7ltplNJF52lls_Li9wMdKRLmNK-YrfsH4sD3We9XKms

I think that you and His Holiness Pope Francis have made a very powerful and valid point.

To whatever degree my ideas on all of this are incorrect.... i apologize in advance because over these past thirty years I've studied near death experience accounts continually and frankly.... .some of the ideas that these accounts go into sure seem like fulfillments of the promise made in John 16:25.. .but.....  they also address questions far, far, far, far, far above my own Security Clearance Level with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

 

"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." (John 16:25)

"[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls." (Baruch 6:6)
I believe that the Being of Light of NDE fame who reviews lives with people is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in the immortal and glorious body that he was given at His resurrection.

 

So the Life Review of former Skeptic and near death experiencer Howard Storm or of near death experiencer Mr. Christian Andreason sure seem to fit with many scriptures.  These NDE accounts fit with....

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." (Revelation 12:11)

near-death
.com/
religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a03

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3. The Life Review of Howard Storm

 

Next, they wanted to talk about my life. To my surprise my life played out before me, maybe six or eight feet in front of me, from beginning to end.

 

The life review was very much in their control, and they showed me my life, but not from my point of view. I saw me in my life and this whole thing was a lesson, even though I didn't know it at the time. They were trying to teach me something, but I didn't know it was a teaching experience, because I didn't know that I would be coming back. We just watched my life from beginning to the end. Some things they slowed down on, and zoomed in on and other things they went right through.

 

My life was shown in a way that I had never thought of before. All of the things that I had worked to achieve, the recognition that I had worked for, in elementary school, in high school, in college, and in my career, they meant nothing in this setting.

 

I could feel their feelings of sorrow and suffering, or joy, as my life's review unfolded. They didn't say that something was bad or good, but I could feel it. And I could sense all those things they were indifferent to. They didn't, for example, look down on my high school shot-put record. They just didn't feel anything towards it, nor towards other things which I had taken so much pride in.

 

What they responded to was how I had interacted with other people. That was the long and short of it. Unfortunately, most of my interactions with other people didn't measure up with how I should have interacted, which was in a loving way. Whenever I did react during my life in a loving way they rejoiced.
 
Most of the time I found that my interactions with other people had been manipulative. During my professional career, for example, I saw myself sitting in my office, playing the college professor, while a student came to me with a personal problem. I sat there looking compassionate, and patient, and loving, while inside I was bored to death. I would check my watch under my desk as I anxiously waited for the student to finish.
 
I got to go through all those kinds of experiences in the company of these magnificent beings.

 

When I was a teenager my father's career put him into a high-stress, twelve-hour-a-day job. Out of my resentment because of his neglect of me, when he came home from work, I would be cold and indifferent toward him. This made him angry, and it gave me further excuse to feel hatred toward him. He and I fought, and my mother would get upset. Most of my life I had felt that my father was the villain and I was the victim. When we reviewed my life I got to see how I had precipitated so much of that, myself. Instead of greeting him happily at the end of a day, I was continually putting thorns in him in order to justify my hurt.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On the title of this thread i.e. "Pope endorses civil unions for gay couples" I did read over on CA what I thought was an excellent response.  He did include some history of civil unions: https://forums.catholic.com/t/should-catholics-support-civil-unions/632455/28 - go to November 5, post by CRM_Brother (I could not find how to link to the post itself).

[Guest]

Because of the great diversity of beliefs in the community, the diversity of religious beliefs, culture etc. I think that the time has come for Church and state to be really separate.  I think that I do not have the right to try to force my beliefs on anyone, while retaining the right to profess what I do and to state, if in my book, if the state is making a wrong moral step, to state that that is what I think and believe without condemning others for what they believe and/or trying to force my beliefs on all.

If God created and absolutely and totally respects free will of every person, then I think we must do likewise.  Jesus asks us to not only love those we like, but also to love our enemies.  I have read some appalling statements, nouns used, about pro-choice people and by Catholics.  Not a good look, witness or example - or even a truth or truths in the spirit of The Gospels.

[fides' Jack]

To love our enemies one must speak the truth to them.  Forcing beliefs is, by definition, either brainwashing or otherwise deceiving and manipulating them.  Proselytizing is neither.  And while we hesitate because someone accuses us of "forcing our beliefs", they are the ones who are really doing just that.

More now than ever, it is time for good Catholics to speak the truth of their faith, and stop hiding behind a false understanding of politeness.  If you love God, you will tell others about Him.

It is the place of the Church to take a public stand on religious and moral grounds.  And given that just about all the issues now are moral ones, we should be hearing from the Church an awful lot.  It is the duty of the Church to guide politics and politicians toward God.  And it is our duty not to back down from that obligation.

[Dennis Tate]

I take what was shown to near death experiencer Christian Andreason on this topic very seriously.  

 

https://near-death.com/christian-andreason-nde/

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11. What about sexually diverse people?

If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation … enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit … but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported satanic hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples. Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness.

 

 

 

 

[Didacus]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:23 AM, Dennis Tate said:

I take what was shown to near death experiencer Christian Andreason on this topic very seriously.  

 

https://near-death.com/christian-andreason-nde/

 

 

 

Embracing vice renders our souls to darkness.

I don't believe the question of sex with have any relevance in the next world.