Pope endorses civil unions for gay couples?

[Ash Wednesday]

14 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

"Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” - Pope Francis

A union, agreement, contract, that is a family is how different from a marriage that is a family? And what legal 'union' which would create a homosexual family not apply to the CDF document we are all conveniently ignoring?

 

Not all of us are. As I stated in my post, I still refer to the document as far as my stance on the matter. It has weight and clarity that this whole situation lacks. 

And I agree with you and others -- the confusion and persistent lack of clarity has been a regular problem with this pontificate. Regularly since 2013, Catholics end up engaging in debates about what something "really means" -- and nothing is usually done by the Vatican to try to help clean up the confusing mess that gets made. I'm not in a place to know the intentions or why that is, but as usual, I would like to see this particular situation further addressed since people naturally have been running wild with it. Sadly I'm not really going to hold my breath.

[KnightofChrist]

19 hours ago, Peace said:

Well I will agree with you that his unwillingness to respond directly to many controversies and add clarification seems troubling. One might say that he does that in order to encourage the bad behavior, but I think that as Catholics we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there is some other reason why he chooses to remain silent.

As for the last part of the article, well, I would be happy to go back and make that part bold for you too, but its too late unless @Dust gives me a magical editing power to do so.

At this point, I don't think it is fair to say that Pope Francis has "endorsed homosexual civil unions." For one, the word "homosexual" does not appear in the text of the statement. Secondly, as noted in the article and elsewhere, there is some debate about whether the term is properly translated as "civil union" or if something else was being referred to there. Third, the portion of the interview from which the statement was taken, has not been released at all, and you saw what they did with the other part by cutting statements from different portions and putting them together to make it seem different. If they did it with the one part of the video there is a darn good chance they did it with that statement too. Heck, "they" in that sentence could refer to "health care rights" for all we know.

Again, it would be nice if the Pope clarified, but at least from my standpoint as Catholics I think we should presume that the pope has not contradicted the teaching of the Church unless someone clearly demonstrates otherwise, instead of presuming that the pope has contradicted the Church, unless he acquits himself.  I don't think it should be our business to go around shaking down the pope, but that's just me.

There is a bit of irony in that, in the very same interview, the pope complains about how the media often misconstrues his words. But that is the name of the game nowadays. Controversy sells.

I am done giving him the benefit of doubt. Sorry but as I stated in another similar thread. 

This is the same play book of "that's not what he really said" or "he was misinterpreted" or "misquoted" that gets played everytime Pope Francis is interviewed by Eugenio Scalfari. Pope Francis himself has never corrected Scalfari, even after the reporter quoted Pope Francis as denying the eternity of hell, indestructibility of souls in hell, the Godhood of Christ, amongst other strange things.

I'm not getting played anymore. Until Francis comes out himself and clears things up, I'll believe he was indeed correctly quoted, each and every time he's said to say some strange thing by those he interviews with. 

Why does Francis keep going back to people like Scalfari if they misquote him so much? It makes no sense unless he wants to play both sides. 

[Peace]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:58 PM, Jaime said:

welcome to Phatmass!! there are words that automatically get changed into something else like Jaime (that used to turn into hotstuff... poop)

 

Silence! Never let the secrets of Phatmass be known!

[Anomaly]

On 10/23/2020 at 5:22 PM, Peace said:

 

Look, it is not my intention to demonize the Eastern Orthodox Church. That is reserved for Protestants, @Anomaly, and Browns fans.

So this morning I glanced up and all I saw was the undercarriage of a bus.

Really, I don’t bash the Church, or Eastern Orthodox.    I have immense respect for the Church and religion, despite how people choose to “follow” whatever.  

Nor have I ever, ever, ever, been a Browns fan. 

[Didacus]

I have read the CCC and studied it, and I have read my share of quotes and writtings of papa-Francis.

I have never read, heaed a wuote from papa-Francis thatbhas EVER contradicted my understanding of the CCC and Church teachings.

 

Just the other day, I came accross this quote from papa-Francis:

"God's image is the married couple.  A man and a woman.  Not just the man.  Not just the woman.  No, both of them.  That's God's image."

Don't think it can get any clearer than that...

[fides' Jack]

Speaking about homosexual priests, here is one of Pope Francis' first statements as pope: “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

2 hours ago, Didacus said:

Just the other day, I came accross this quote from papa-Francis:

"God's image is the married couple.  A man and a woman.  Not just the man.  Not just the woman.  No, both of them.  That's God's image."

Don't think it can get any clearer than that...

Yeah, except in that context, the image he's provoking is incomplete.  In the family sense, it is man, wife, and children that completes the image of God.  Just as God the Father and God the Son love Each Other and through that Love the Holy Spirit "proceeds"...  It is not just God the Father and God the Son.

Sometimes the holy father does say good things.  Like I said before, it seems to be every other statement that he makes is good, and every other statement he makes sows confusion and division.  But it's impossible to ignore or deny that he has sown a lot of confusion and division.

[Anastasia13]

On 10/21/2020 at 12:58 PM, linate said:

good point

Very good point.

[Credo in Deum]

I don't know, it sounds more like Papa Frank is saying there needs to be a civil contract that legally protects gay children from being disowned by their family.  Notice he says "there needs to be a law" and Italy already has civil union laws for gay couples.   Just my two cents.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Italy

Edited November 1, 2020 by Credo in Deum

[Credo in Deum]

Nevermind, I think I'm wrong, lol. 

[dUSt]

https://aleteia.org/2020/11/02/vatican-secretariate-of-state-clarifies-popes-civil-unions-comment/

[Deb]

People are free to write wills, make legal contracts, medical directives, etc. There is no reason for a civil union for people living in grave sin or anyone else.              That is all I am going to say as I have been called a racist and a homophobe enough lately, on my local Catholic Archdiocesan Paper website.  Thank you for listening.  

[Anastasia]

35 minutes ago, Deb said:

That is all I am going to say as I have been called a racist and a homophobe enough lately, on my local Catholic Archdiocesan Paper website.  Thank you for listening.  

I sympathize but this this helped me. I was thinking about the cost of stating the truth (or not even stating, just being) just now.

40 minutes ago, Deb said:

There is no reason for a civil union for people living in grave sin or anyone else. 

And even if there was some the Church is not suppose to approve/endorse/whatever but disapprove it clearly at any circumstance.

[Anastasia]

2 hours ago, Deb said:

That is all I am going to say as I have been called a racist and a homophobe enough lately, on my local Catholic Archdiocesan Paper website. 

I think I understood why the unfortunate case of prosecution for being truthful perked me up – because it affirmed the existence of the Truth which was buried under various ambiguities. It is a also a clear “fruit” of the Pope saying something murky out of the desire “to be nice” and then of course not clarifying it despite the distress of the Roman Catholics (he cannot clarify it because if he does the play of “being nice” will be lost).

Now all the world can say (and people do) “Your Pope is pro-”homosexual unions”. The legalistic argument that “unions are different from marriage and the Pops is not endorsing the latter” are laughable because the push for “homosexual unions” is about giving to homosexual couples all the rights the married couples have and also because, as the LGBTQ activists themselves say “it is juts a step towards a marriage”. So, it is all verbal gymnastics.

Compare it with the Pope (or a Patriarch, or any Bishop) saying answering a question about “homosexual unions”:
We see it as a sin that distorts a human psyche and spirit and this is why we cannot condone such things – “unions” or “marriage” or whatever you call it. Yes, the state does it but to us the highest authority is God so here we are and you have to respect our point of view since you proclaim "tolerance" to be your highest value. Then the world perceives the Church as a gathering of religious nuts, idiots or whatever but nothing can be done with such idiots who refuse “to be nice”. Muslims somehow refuse and they are quite OK.

[HumilityAndPatience]

9 hours ago, Anastasia said:

it affirmed the existence of the Truth which was buried under various ambiguities. It is a also a clear “fruit” of the Pope saying something murky out of the desire “to be nice” and then of course not clarifying it despite the distress of the Roman Catholics (he cannot clarify it because if he does the play of “being nice” will be lost).

Now all the world can say (and people do) “Your Pope is pro-”homosexual unions”. The legalistic argument that “unions are different from marriage and the Pops is not endorsing the latter” are laughable because the push for “homosexual unions” is about giving to homosexual couples all the rights the married couples have and also because, as the LGBTQ activists themselves say “it is juts a step towards a marriage”. So, it is all verbal gymnastics.

Read the CDF guidance, friends. The guidance states that once the impasse on Civil Unions in temporal, state law has been broken, it can be legitimately proposed as an alternative to gay marriage.

[tate4242]

By the way.... I termed myself "Jewish" in my profile because I have listened to dozens of lectures by near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava and I see zero errors in any statement that he has made so..... I am thinking that the time may come when I am somewhat more than merely a Noahide but I may go all the way and become Jewish IF.... there is a Rabbi who wants me as a part of their branch of the Jewish community........

 

On the subject of His Holiness Pope Francis's statement regarding Civil Unions for the LGBT community I am reminded of a statement made by near death experiencer Mr. Christian Andreason.

near-death.

com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason

.html#a11
 

Quote

 

 11. What about sexually diverse people?

 

If this world was to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (gay) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect! People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially induced prejudice. Some may use mistranslated scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported satanic hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples. Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness.