Am I the only person who actually DISAGREES with Father Altman's video?

[Guest]

Stop Press:  The following should read "Jesus told us "Fools! You read the signs of the times, but cannot read the signs of the times". 

It should read as follows: "Jesus told us "Fools! You read the signs of the weather - tomorrow it will be windy and rain etc., but cannot read the signs of the times".   I don't think we can anymore, if we ever did indeed.

No need really, for any panic etc. etc.  Thank The Lord that He is the Head of The Church "and the gates of hell shall not prevail" against His Church.

Quotes above are paraphrasing.

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't know if the board gets notifications on my editing but I clicked the topic header and it flipped out and added in the url in the topic header on accident. So in case anyone wonders, my mouse just kind of freaked out and I edited it just to revert it to the original topic header.  Didn't want anyone to think I was doing anything sketchy to modify the original post.

[Polak]

I'm just not keen on 'dissident priests'. Fr. Altman seems to be spending most of his time criticising Church hierarchy, instead of preaching the Gospel, or if he does preach it, he uses it to attack Church hierarchy.

And yes, I know, there are plenty of liberal leaning clerg, who spend their time twisting Church teaching, or even speaking out against it, to fit in with their ideological view. That shouldn't be tolerated either. 

[Clean Water]

This "priest" literally preached homilies saying Black people were justified being lynched in the past. It's too bad that isn't a deal breaker for more Catholics. 

 

[Polak]

I'm not a great fan of his, but can you present me with a clip of him saying black people deserved to be lynched? I haven't heard him say that.

[Clean Water]

15 minutes ago, Polak said:

I'm not a great fan of his, but can you present me with a clip of him saying black people deserved to be lynched? I haven't heard him say that.

"The homily, titled 'Racism and What We Are Not Told' was posted on July 3rd.

Had someone played it without context, I probably would have thought it was from a KKK rally.

In it, Altman proceeds to say that his homily is addressed to 'low information individuals who can’t properly string words together to form a sentence'. He predictably says that systemic racism is a lie, that Black men disproportionately commit crimes, that everyone who was lynched was either a rapist or a killer, and then pushes a false equivalence fallacy about the deaths of White union soldiers vs the number of Black men who were lynched."

https://www.blackcatholicmessenger.com/racism-and-what-we-are-not-told/

[Polak]

Well, let's keep things in context and stick with what was actually said.

I have posted a link to the video below (the sermon goes from the 32nd minute to the 48th), so you can check it out.

At around 33 mins Fr. Altman more or less says 'the truth of facts is going to enrage a certain chunk of people, low information people'. There is no way of knowing if he is talking about black people, but I suspect he isn't. He probably means leftists, because he talks about the leftist mainstream narrative right before he says that. He therefore is likely to be speaking about people who watch and believe the left-wing media. He later talked about them not being able to string together words to formulate an intelligible sentence, but once again, he doesn't say he is talking about black people, although he does refer to looters later, who may have been mostly black, although I don't know, I heard there were a lot of white antifa thugs in there too.

He actually talks about the equality of races in the sermon and repeats this, saying that if schools taught the Catechism, people would understand there is no room for racism. Nothing about white people being better or black people deserving anything bad. He also says if there was systemic racism, it would be a bad thing, but he doesn't think there is.

He says there is a disproportionate amount of incarceration of blacks, but also a disproportionate amount of crime committed by black people. I wouldn't say that's an attack on black people, although I don't think a priest of any colour should be going into race related stats in sermons. It just doesn't seem to be the place to do it, during a church service.

He said lynchings took place against black and white people and were mostly done to criminals, although then does say it (obviously) wasn't a good thing, because it was basically capital punishment carried about by mobs.

I don't have much knowledge about the white union soldiers stuff as I'm not from the USA. 

Personally I don't think it was a great topic for a sermon, but he didn't say anything as bad as what is claimed. His main gripe seems to be with the left, talking about the leftist media and how most of those who owned slaves were Democrats (so it's political too. We know how much he doesn't like Democrats). He's obviously a very right leaning priest, and I don't think priests should be making their political leanings obvious in sermons, that's why I disagree with a lot of what he is doing.

I would however suggest watching the actual homily (or if you have, rewatching it) and not just reading an opinion piece about it.

PS, it disturbs me a little that you have a Black Lives Matter hashtag in your profile photo. You know that movement espouses many non-Catholic views, and in fact, anti-Catholic views, right?

 

[Peace]

44 minutes ago, Polak said:

Well, let's keep things in context and stick with what was actually said.

I have posted a link to the video below (the sermon goes from the 32nd minute to the 48th), so you can check it out.

At around 33 mins Fr. Altman more or less says 'the truth of facts is going to enrage a certain chunk of people, low information people'. There is no way of knowing if he is talking about black people, but I suspect he isn't. He probably means leftists, because he talks about the leftist mainstream narrative right before he says that. He therefore is likely to be speaking about people who watch and believe the left-wing media. He later talked about them not being able to string together words to formulate an intelligible sentence, but once again, he doesn't say he is talking about black people, although he does refer to looters later, who may have been mostly black, although I don't know, I heard there were a lot of white antifa thugs in there too.

He actually talks about the equality of races in the sermon and repeats this, saying that if schools taught the Catechism, people would understand there is no room for racism. Nothing about white people being better or black people deserving anything bad. He also says if there was systemic racism, it would be a bad thing, but he doesn't think there is.

He says there is a disproportionate amount of incarceration of blacks, but also a disproportionate amount of crime committed by black people. I wouldn't say that's an attack on black people, although I don't think a priest of any colour should be going into race related stats in sermons. It just doesn't seem to be the place to do it, during a church service.

He said lynchings took place against black and white people and were mostly done to criminals, although then does say it (obviously) wasn't a good thing, because it was basically capital punishment carried about by mobs.

I don't have much knowledge about the white union soldiers stuff as I'm not from the USA. 

Personally I don't think it was a great topic for a sermon, but he didn't say anything as bad as what is claimed. His main gripe seems to be with the left, talking about the leftist media and how most of those who owned slaves were Democrats (so it's political too. We know how much he doesn't like Democrats). He's obviously a very right leaning priest, and I don't think priests should be making their political leanings obvious in sermons, that's why I disagree with a lot of what he is doing.

I would however suggest watching the actual homily (or if you have, rewatching it) and not just reading an opinion piece about it.

PS, it disturbs me a little that you have a Black Lives Matter hashtag in your profile photo. You know that movement espouses many non-Catholic views, and in fact, anti-Catholic views, right?

 

He just strikes me as a bit too political for a priest perhaps. At some point your politics start influencing your religion, but it must be your religion that influences your politics.

[Ash Wednesday]

4 hours ago, Clean Water said:

Black men disproportionately commit crimes, that everyone who was lynched was either a rapist or a killer,

Specifically, this was the bit that I referenced previously that I found highly insensitive. He said this as if black people were given any kind of right to due process or fair trial. The level of ignorance in that statement was just stunning. 
 

[ReasonableFaith]

If one were to track down Altman’s lynching source at NAACP.com it becomes obvious his assertions are taken out of context and are misrepresentation at best.

One of the salient point of his specific quoted source states:

‘Many victims of lynchings were murdered without being accused of any crime. They were killed for violating social customs or racial expectations, such as speaking to white people with less respect than what white people believed they were owed.’

This is in direct contradiction to one of the main points of his talk. Other portions of the quoted source point out the lynchings of ‘non-blacks’ were often associated with those attempting to oppose white supremacy or were members of unfavored immigrant groups.  
 

This particular misrepresentation is only one aspect of Altman’s talk. It may be safe to infer the presence of other misrepresentations or outright falsehoods. 

[Ice_nine]

15 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

Specifically, this was the bit that I referenced previously that I found highly insensitive. He said this as if black people were given any kind of right to due process or fair trial. The level of ignorance in that statement was just stunning. 
 

yeah that's wack. Of course he shouldn't be allowed to say things like that, but it's also frustrating that people can say really confusing things about homosexuality, remarriage and be really soft on pro-abortion politicians with impunity. It is rather one-sided. 

The church leadership in the West is so feckless and downright pathetic. If level-minded and faithful priests and bishops were standing up for the truth more, I don't think Fr. Altman would be that appealing in the first. But since so many religious are just bending the knee to the zeitgeist, this is what we get.

We probably deserve all of this.

Religion aside, I'm sick of the discourse on the right trailing behind. When the left says the US is and always has been a racist hellhole why do people want to swoop in with some revisionist history of their own and say "actually it was not that bad and most people who were lynched probably deserved it."

What the hell?

We just can't have nice things at this point. Nice things are banned.

[ReasonableFaith]

Today’s piece in the Black Catholic Messenger by Alessandra Harris, “Reflection: Profiled at the Altar” seems even more revealing in light of the claims by Altman. His claims seem to address society at large while the Harris family experience was much closer to ‘home.’  
 

What the actual reasons for the cleric’s inquiry were...we will never fully know.  But we do know how it made the author feel. The comments she received about to the cleric’s likely wish to defend the Eucharist seem to tell a larger story Altman et al do not wish to even consider. 
 

[Clean Water]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:42 PM, ReasonableFaith said:

Today’s piece in the Black Catholic Messenger by Alessandra Harris, “Reflection: Profiled at the Altar” seems even more revealing in light of the claims by Altman. His claims seem to address society at large while the Harris family experience was much closer to ‘home.’  
 

What the actual reasons for the cleric’s inquiry were...we will never fully know.  But we do know how it made the author feel. The comments she received about to the cleric’s likely wish to defend the Eucharist seem to tell a larger story Altman et al do not wish to even consider. 
 

I was talking to a Black Catholic last week who was been questioned/denied the Eucharist because he's Black. He's not lying and has no reason to exaggerate.

Just now, Clean Water said:

I was talking to a Black Catholic last week who was been questioned/denied the Eucharist because he's Black. He's not lying and has no reason to exaggerate.

Can't edit. Meant to say *has been questioned/denied the Eucharist.

[fides' Jack]

On 5/26/2021 at 12:17 PM, Ash Wednesday said:

and they've exercised better judgment when discussing them

That remains to be seen.  Perhaps better judgment for themselves, if they are not certain about what the truth is.  

[fides' Jack]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:04 PM, Clean Water said:

systemic racism is a lie

That's false.  Everyone knows that Affirmative Action, and now the push for CRT in the education system, proves the contrary.

On 6/10/2021 at 12:04 PM, Clean Water said:

Black men disproportionately commit crimes

This is statistically true.  And not racist to point out.  All conservatives agree it's not due to the color of their skin, but it's true nonetheless.

On 6/10/2021 at 12:04 PM, Clean Water said:

that everyone who was lynched was either a rapist or a killer

I listened to a lot of this homily, and can't find that comment.  I don't believe it's true, unless you can point out the timestamp.  This is a false statement.

On 6/10/2021 at 12:04 PM, Clean Water said:

then pushes a false equivalence fallacy about the deaths of White union soldiers vs the number of Black men who were lynched.

It's really disingenuous to call something a fallacy and not point out why it's a fallacy.  In fact, it would probably fall under "ad hominem" to do so, or at least a "begs the question".  

BlackCatholicMessenger seems to be wrong on a number of other accounts, as well, and completely misrepresents Fr. Altman's position on at least one aspect.  That's probably due to ignorance of what Fr. Altman was actually saying, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, there.  It was just a mistake.