Am I the only person who actually DISAGREES with Father Altman's video?

[Ash Wednesday]

2 hours ago, HumilityAndPatience said:

Indeed- it is a hypothetical situation to prove that Father Altman's statement is incorrect. Unless you can see all ends then you cannot make such a definitive statement. That is the wisdom of Ratzinger's advice and why the Church must remain bipartisan. 

I think we agree therefore on a lot. The hypothetical shows why one cannot make a definitive statement such as Father Altman's.

For the record, I am a Catholic (also from the UK)... therefore anti-abortion. But that does not give me a right to propose that "You cannot be Catholic and vote Democrat". I could just as easily propose some reasons why "You cannot be Catholic and vote Republican"- however these reasons are not obvious to the eye. I allude to them in the video.

I had to edit your post only to make sure my quote was updated, don't mind that. I'm a vicious, serial editor of my own posts. 

Anyway -- I really, really hate criticizing good priests too much, I'm reluctant to make that my place. But I really wish more priests would openly call out the Democrat platform, because in my experience many priests and fellow Catholics view the party favorably and they are completely dismissive of the gravity of their hostility and evils they mandate we cooperate with. I do understand why the video wordage raises questions, though -- it's not like you can presume to know the state of someone's soul depending on what party they are registered in. The heart of the underlying debate isn't Democrat vs. Republican -- it's about the non-negotiables. 

Either way, a Catholic's moral obligation to vote should involve a lot more prayer and study than watching a video. 

[cutenickname]

1 hour ago, HumilityAndPatience said:

Indeed- it is a hypothetical situation to prove that Father Altman's statement is incorrect. Unless you can see all ends then you cannot make such a definitive statement. That is the wisdom of Ratzinger's advice and why the Church must remain bipartisan. 

I think we agree therefore on a lot. The hypothetical shows why one cannot make a definitive statement such as Father Altman's.

For the record, I am a Catholic (also from the UK)... therefore anti-abortion. But that does not give me a right to propose that "You cannot be Catholic and vote Democrat". I could just as easily propose some reasons why "You cannot be Catholic and vote Republican"- however these reasons are not obvious to the eye. I allude to them in the video.

To whose eye?

[HumilityAndPatience]

2 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

Either way, a Catholic's moral obligation to vote should involve a lot more prayer and study than watching a video. 

Amen- I agree

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm glad that's all you've quoted thus far because I've edited that post way too many times  if only because it's a serious topic and I try to phrase it with as much care as possible. This old Mediator of Meh has been reluctant to get roped in because I have many times and it can get exhausting. 

@HumilityAndPatience would love to get into a discussion with you about UK politics as a Catholic sometime because I haven't been a voting citizen that long and I'm still trying to get used to it! Very different scenario there!  

[cutenickname]

(I am an Anglophile and an Anglo-Catholic. Have your discussion where I can watch. I will only intervene if one you turns out to be a treasonous British Republican @Ash Wednesday and @HumilityAndPatience.)

[Ash Wednesday]

Just now, cutenickname said:

(I am an Anglophile and an Anglo-Catholic. Have your discussion where I can watch. I will only intervene if one you turns out to be a treasonous British Republican @Ash Wednesday and @HumilityAndPatience.)

I quite like the Queen! If that's the Republican we're talking about.  I never had any desire to register with any party in the US, and am not comfortable doing that here in the UK either. My husband did, and now we get political junk mail, much to my annoyance. 

[Jaime]

On 9/21/2020 at 5:52 PM, cutenickname said:

I consider white nationalism to be a non-negotiable. I feel like Trump purposefully or not is crafting a version of the United States where I could be sent to a death camp or shot in the streets by some angry young man.

I do not like Biden. I think abortion is wicked. I will be voting for Joe Biden from fear for my own safety. Don't know what else to say.

I know a lot of people who hold that opinion.  But I'd like to add more context to the discussion.  

Here's a hypothetical.  Joe Biden says that he is personally against abortion but won't let his personal views be imposed on others.  If Biden had said during the primaries " I cannot be true to my faith and support the prochoice platform anymore.  I agree with everything the democratic party stands for but I've changed my position on abortion". Do you think Biden would be the democratic nominee?

The democratic party would not only condemn Biden he would in fact be thrown out of the democratic party.  People chastise me for being a single issue voter but I am just one guy but the democratic party makes up 31% of the US population.  That is 67 million single issue voters pholks.

I firmly believe when you vote, you are voting for the person and the party.  I cannot vote for a party that refuses to believe that being prolife can be acceptable position.

[dUSt]

If Biden would have picked a pro-life VP I would have voted for him. It would have showed he wasn't a puppet for the Democratic Party.

[Jaime]

19 minutes ago, dUSt said:

If Biden would have picked a pro-life VP I would have voted for him. It would have showed he wasn't a puppet for the Democratic Party.

Read up on John DeBerry from Tennessee. He was the last Pro-life democrat and was thrown out of the party as he was still in office.  In fact he was thrown out intentionally past the deadline to allow him to run as an independent for his own seat.   

No one is allowed to hold a pro-life stance and run on a democratic ticket.

[cutenickname]

5 hours ago, Jaime said:

I know a lot of people who hold that opinion.  But I'd like to add more context to the discussion.  

Here's a hypothetical.  Joe Biden says that he is personally against abortion but won't let his personal views be imposed on others.  If Biden had said during the primaries " I cannot be true to my faith and support the prochoice platform anymore.  I agree with everything the democratic party stands for but I've changed my position on abortion". Do you think Biden would be the democratic nominee?

The democratic party would not only condemn Biden he would in fact be thrown out of the democratic party.  People chastise me for being a single issue voter but I am just one guy but the democratic party makes up 31% of the US population.  That is 67 million single issue voters pholks.

I firmly believe when you vote, you are voting for the person and the party.  I cannot vote for a party that refuses to believe that being prolife can be acceptable position.

I think the Democratic position on abortion is shameful. I think the Republican positions on melanin, immigration, LGBTQIA people, women, the poor, the sick, etc are shameful.

We disagree.

My general policy is to try not to speak deeply into the things I disagree with other Christians on, but to state the difference, move on, and focus my energies on the Lord Jesus.

Edited September 25, 2020 by cutenickname

[Jaime]

32 minutes ago, cutenickname said:

I think the Democratic position on abortion is shameful. I think the Republican positions on melanin, immigration, LGBTQIA people, women, the poor, the sick, etc are shameful.

We disagree.

My general policy is to try not to speak deeply into the things I disagree with other Christians on, but to state the difference, move on, and focus my energies on the Lord Jesus.

As a Protestant you have the latitude to make that decision.   As a Catholic I’m much more restricted on things as critical as abortion

 

for the most part I’d love to vote Democrat. But their refusal to allow prolife to be considered, there’s no chance

[cutenickname]

5 minutes ago, Jaime said:

As a Protestant you have the latitude to make that decision.   As a Catholic I’m much more restricted on things as critical as abortion

 

for the most part I’d love to vote Democrat. But their refusal to allow prolife to be considered, there’s no chance

I was Catholic for three decades. I understand the difficulty of the position.

[Jaime]

4 minutes ago, cutenickname said:

I was Catholic for three decades. I understand the difficulty of the position.

Maybe we could be besties

[cutenickname]

3 minutes ago, Jaime said:

Maybe we could be besties

My bestie would have to value my out of the womb brown children's lives more than they do the unborn and indeed unconceived futurelings.

We just have to be regular friends.

 

[Jaime]

22 minutes ago, cutenickname said:

My bestie would have to value my out of the womb brown children's lives more than they do the unborn and indeed unconceived futurelings.

We just have to be regular friends.

 

You make a lot of presumptions