Crusader_4 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yea i go to the same school with Crusader1234 and it is actually very conservative i would even venture to say its the most conservative Catholic high School in Canada and definatly in Manitoba without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Jacob, I think he's getting more at radical Catholic's that want eveything turned over. I do agree though - by definition 'liberal' doesnt = nonchristian. Radical liberalists who not only accept change but lobby for it are just as bad as radical traditionalists who totally reject and lobby against change. I am all for change, so long as its Ex-Cathedra and from God and the Pope. Peace, Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jul 5 2004, 01:52 AM'] If my high school was in St. Louis, I'd take your advice immediately. But, it's Detroit. And, the school is under the control of the Jesuits, and when I was there, my attempts to bring the situation to light, thouogh maybe not the most tactful, were slammed down pretty quickly by the administration. [/quote] I'm sorry to hear it's so bad.... With the internet, you can go directly to the Bishop. If you need help getting emails, just let me know. It's a shame that there are such bad jesuits trashing the order. Iacobus... you never answered my question on a past thread about what makes you think that you're "very liberal"... so I'm left at only speculation... and [b]if [/b]it's [b]anything[/b]like I speculate, then you've got a lot to learn about Catholicism. "Very liberal" and Catholic do not go together. It's impossible to be a real Catholic and "Very liberal" - That is just the way it is. Change for Christ or don't. What I see as liberal:[list] [*]people on the fence about abortion or for it [*]people supporting birth control [*]people supporting ssa marriage [*]people wanting to keep God out of public view [*]People who support legalizing drugs because so many people do them [*]people who support pre-marital sex [*]people who are into the orgy thing and wife swapping [*]people who think that the Church is an evil empire [/list] If you don't support any of those things, then I wouldn't say you're a liberal... and are Catholic. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I think some people are too attached to the word "liberal" because of their social and economic stances. while I may disagree with those stances, so long as the one who has them believes to be the best way to bring about Social Justice, then those stances are within the realm of Catholic Teaching. Therefore, I propose we stick to the terms "orthodox" and "heterodox" if you substitute "heterodox" everywhere you see "liberal" in these posts, you will be less offended. Of course if ironmonk is correct in the above bullets (or wait, that's no longer politically correct they can't be called "bullets" anymore! :rotfl:) then "heterodox" would fit you and you might be offended. But if you recognize abortion is an issue that is so much bigger than any economic issue and takes ultimate precedence over any issue as it is the greatest evil of our time, and are not in line with any of the above bullets in ironmonk's post (which I assume you are not) then you can replace "liberal" in the above posts with "heterodox" (which is basically being theologically liberal as opposed to orthodox which is theologically conservative) and you'll be fine. So long as you're not heterodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 5 2004, 01:33 AM'] I think some people are too attached to the word "liberal" because of their social and economic stances. while I may disagree with those stances, so long as the one who has them believes to be the best way to bring about Social Justice, then those stances are within the realm of Catholic Teaching. Therefore, I propose we stick to the terms "orthodox" and "heterodox" if you substitute "heterodox" everywhere you see "liberal" in these posts, you will be less offended. Of course if ironmonk is correct in the above bullets (or wait, that's no longer politically correct they can't be called "bullets" anymore! :rotfl:) then "heterodox" would fit you and you might be offended. But if you recognize abortion is an issue that is so much bigger than any economic issue and takes ultimate precedence over any issue as it is the greatest evil of our time, and are not in line with any of the above bullets in ironmonk's post (which I assume you are not) then you can replace "liberal" in the above posts with "heterodox" (which is basically being theologically liberal as opposed to orthodox which is theologically conservative) and you'll be fine. So long as you're not heterodox. [/quote] I was going to bring this up. Liberal doesn't mean your political POV, but whether or not you accept Church teachings. "Liberal Catholics" are those who reject the teachings on contraceptives and abortion, who want female priests, etc. You, Iacobus, I think are a good Catholic and hold fast to the teachings of the Church; you may be a "political liberal" but certainly not liberal when it comes to the Church from what I've seen. Edited July 5, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Ironmonk, your definition of liberal isnt really congruent with the actual definition. Like Al said, heterodox is a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I am liberal is my social views and my econmoic views. Very far left there. But that is it. I am not any of those items on your "ordered list (trying to be PC, LOL! Well not really in HTML they are ordered lists so that is what I think of them as)" LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Jul 5 2004, 12:53 AM'] I was going to bring this up. Liberal doesn't mean your political POV, but whether or not you accept Church teachings. "Liberal Catholics" are those who reject the teachings on contraceptives and abortion, who want female priests, etc. You, Iacobus, I think are a good Catholic and hold fast to the teachings of the Church; you may be a "political liberal" but certainly not liberal when it comes to the Church from what I've seen. [/quote] I am very conservite about the Church, lol. Yes, you are right about that. But I am a Polticaly liberal Catholic. Which intrests me in the "elestaic" clause in the Constition but that isn't to be talked about in this thread, lol, way off the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Okay, for the sake of clarity and not clouding the issue by offending Iacobus's political stance (which we can argue against in other topics if we want, that's not what this topic is for) by from henceforth refering to a Heterodox Catholic Conspiracy. Iacobus, do you believe there to be a Heterodoxal Catholic Conspiracy in the Church? I can kind of see one. Pax Amorque Christi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 What would you say if a Pope declared ex-Cathedra (with the full support of Cardinals and Bishops mind you) that contraceptives werent bad? I'm not saying they arent bad but whawt if there was an ex-Cathedra document saying they werent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 5 2004, 03:16 AM'] What would you say if a Pope declared ex-Cathedra (with the full support of Cardinals and Bishops mind you) that contraceptives werent bad? I'm not saying they arent bad but whawt if there was an ex-Cathedra document saying they werent? [/quote] They wouldn't. It's not up to them to change something laid down by God.... the very reason why there will never be female priests. It wouldn't be ex-Cathedra because it would go against former teachings, that in and of itself kills the whole ex-Cathedra possibility. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 even if it was wrong for the reasons you stated, and they still did it, what would you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemnantRules Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Then he'd be going against church law, and the Catichesim which he help write so if that EVER happened i'd say go read your own writtings. I believe it's about half and half. I think yes there are people in groups forming to try and liberalize the church but i also think there were things that just happen b/c it just happened. And remember that our lord prayed that we all maybe one, so instead of going on a witch hunt i think we need to settle down and find out why people want this so badly God Bless Jason Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yeah, we cant forget the radical traditionalists that don't aknowledge V2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 5 2004, 01:16 AM'] What would you say if a Pope declared ex-Cathedra (with the full support of Cardinals and Bishops mind you) that contraceptives werent bad? I'm not saying they arent bad but whawt if there was an ex-Cathedra document saying they werent? [/quote] I don't see that happening anytime soon. But if it did... [quote]We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides. (St. Ignatius of Loyola)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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