Pentecostal Haters

[[jas]]

I don't hate pentecostals. That's a fact.

Okay. Thanks

It was coming across that a lot of people did, though, in a lot of threads. Which I guess is why this one was started.

[VeraMaria]

,Aug 31 2003, 09:42 PM] Okay. Thanks

It was coming across that a lot of people did, though, in a lot of threads. Which I guess is why this one was started.

:)

[Dave]

I don't hate Pentecostals either.

[Joolye]

I'm not sure that all Pentecostals even qualify to be considered Christians.  Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity.  I would have to draw the line there.  Someone who does not believe in the Most Holy Trinity is most definitely not a Christian.

If you want to be saved, you should be Catholic.  I have read that there are extraordinary means of grace outside the Church, but these are "extra"-ordinary, meaning the exception and not the rule.  Believing in Jesus is not enough.  Loving Jesus is not enough.  One must believe in and love Jesus in the right way, in the Church which He instituted among men for their salvation, the ark of salvation.

Edited the above post to address specific points.

What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before.

The Bible says about being saved, in Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

and in verse 13, "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

[cmotherofpirl]

Edited the above post to address specific points.

What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before.

The Bible says about being saved, in Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

and in verse 13, "for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Jesus also says you must be baptised, it is your entrance into the kingdom.

Paul says Baptism replaces circumcision which was done on the eigth day.

So saying words aren't enough.

THe New Testament is a coherent whole, not bits and pieces. It was put together by theChurch with that in mind.

[cmotherofpirl]

Steve and Sound Guy, I have just read the whole thread again.

WE have disagreed with you, and pointed out errors in what you have been taught about the Church.

But nobody was called you names, insulted you, or derided you. Nobody has been mean to you in anyway or personally attacked you.

[[jas]]

Jesus also says you must be baptised, it is your entrance into the kingdom.

Paul says Baptism replaces circumcision which was done on the eigth day.

WHERE?????

[Dave]

WHERE?????

John 3:5

Colossians 2:11-12

[dUSt]

Does nobody want to answer any of the questions I had? Geesh, you accuse me of hating Pentacostals--you can at least try to answer some of the questions I had on page 1.

God bless.

[kdewolf2]

What is the difference between Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals? I've never heard of Oneness Pentecostals. And I've never heard that Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity before.

I've read about Oneness Pentecostals before and I even met a couple of them. They differ from other Pentecostals because they don't believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are really distinct persons, but simply three different ways in which God relates to us at different times. It's kind of a rehash of Sabellianism. I think most Pentecostals are probably trinitarian. Here is a short article about them:

Oneness Pentecostals

In response to the accusations of hatred. Much earlier in this thread, soundguy said the following:

I came here to learn about Catholicism, not to be tought about the faults in my own religion.

Okay, then. One of the things you should definitely learn about Catholicism is that Catholicism makes an exclusive truth claim. The Church does not regard itself as being one church among many churches, which are each legitimate and valid. The Church regards itself as being the one true Church, the Church founded by Jesus Christ, whereas all the others are essentially man-made institutions. The Church regards itself as offering the fullness of the truth, and the fullness of the means of salvation, and as being the only Church which does so. The other churches may have "elements" of truth and sanctification, but not the whole truth. Furthermore, although non-Catholics can be saved, ideally all Christians should seek salvation in the Catholic Church. Catholic theologians say that non-Catholics, such as Pentecostals, who really do not know of the Church's teachings and its not their fault, may be saved. But those who do know of the Church's teachings and remain indifferent because of their relativistic attitude are putting themselves in a precarious position. I say "precarious" because I can't be sure that you will be damned. But I would definitely consider it dangerous. If you really want to learn about Catholicism, you have to learn that it is the one true Faith, whether you want to hear it or not, and that you cannot remain indifferent toward it. It would be supremely uncharitable if Catholics, on a Catholic forum, addressing non-Catholics, did not make this point clear. I feel compelled, as a Catholic (though not exactly a perfect saint) to re-iterate this point again and again and again and again until it sinks in or at least until everybody takes it seriously enough to examine it critically. I think I have an obligation to make this point precisely because of love. I couldn't just let you go on merry way to hell without saying anything about it. I'm sorry if you've been offended by posts on this forum. I apologize for my own pointless, let's say, b*tchin about Pentecostals earlier in this thread. But Catholics cannot really share in your relativistic attitude. The more you insist on it, the more they have to keeping making their point about the one Faith, the one Church. I know I have a tendency to run on and on and on and it must be really monotonous, so I guess I'm done now.

"There is no truth without love, and no love without truth"

--Photius Coutsoukis

[cmotherofpirl]

,Sep 1 2003, 08:43 AM]

WHERE?????

John 3:5

Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

down to John 3:22

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.

Matthew 28:18

Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19

Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,

20

teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Baptism has always been the entrance into the Kingdom of God.

I will look for the Pauline reference.

[skuba steve]

i cant be bothered pasting all quotes but the only way you go about issues is along the lines of

"you're wrong, we are right!"

i dont understand why it can't be... "this is what i believe"

and now someone would post back saying

because you are wrong and we are right....

what is that going to achieve?

[cmotherofpirl]

Steve you ask questions or make comments and we try to answer or respond.

THere is a big difference between truth and belief.

Truth stands whether I believe it or not.

I can believe I am a car , but that doesn't change the truth of me being a human.

So if I say I believe baptism is entrance into to kingdom, I am stating my belief (opinion, choice, preference) about a truth rather than the truth itself.

[Joolye]

1. Do you think Christianity contains more truth than Islam?

2. Are Muslims saved? They believe and love God.

3. Are Jews saved? They believe in God, but deny Jesus.

4. Do you believe God intended us all to believe different and contradicting things about him?

5. If you were to be totally fair, then you should really believe that Christianity is equal to all the world's religions: Judaism, Hinduism, Wiccan, etc, etc. Is this what you believe?

6. If not, then you are being as unfair to those religions as you accuse us of being to yours... make sense?

1. Yes

2. No

3. No

4. No

5. No

6. No

[cmotherofpirl]

1. Yes

2. No

3. No

4. No

5. No

6. No

1. Do you think Christianity contains more truth than Islam?

yes

2. Are Muslims saved? They believe and love God.

If they don't know about Jesus, then they have a change of heaven through obedience to God through their religion.

3. Are Jews saved? They believe in God, but deny Jesus.

SAme as number 2. A chance.

4. Do you believe God intended us all to believe different and contradicting things about him?

Absolutely not.

5. If you were to be totally fair, then you should really believe that Christianity is equal to all the world's religions: Judaism, Hinduism, Wiccan, etc, etc. Is this what you believe?

No