kdewolf2 Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 I'm not sure that all Pentecostals even qualify to be considered Christians. Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. I would have to draw the line there. Someone who does not believe in the Most Holy Trinity is most definitely not a Christian. Other Pentecostals believe that you are not truly a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. One time, I was at the house of my sister's mother-in-law (I don't remember why). She is a Pentecostal. She, my sister, and my brother-in-law and performed some kind of self-exorcism ritual. They invited me to participate, but I said I wanted to take a walk. Then they insinuated that I was under "demonic influence" just because I did not want to participate in their "exorcism." Pentecostals are known to be very puritanical. I have heard of Pentecostals who have not only condemned smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol, but even drinking coffee, because it has caffeine in it, and caffeine, they say, is a drug. Where, exactly, would my life be without cigarette breaks here and there, a couple beers in the evening, and some good coffee to wake me up in the morning. But many Pentecostals would tell me that I am sinning. Many Pentecostals are also very unecumenical. They do not all have the same concern for acknowledging the possibility of salvation for all who love Christ. A Pentecostal (who was also a chain-smoker and a drunk, the hypocrite) once told me that the Pope is the Antichrist, the Church is satanic, all priests are qwerties who seduce boys, etc., etc. I went to a Pentecostal church one time in Maryland. The whole service was "Glory! Glory!" There were a bunch of pious-sounding phrases strung together randomly with no discernible meaning. I am not saying all Pentecostals are like this. These are just my impressions from what limited experience I have of them. Admittedly, it is not very positive. I know only three Pentecostals personally, and I don't really like any of them, but I don't think its because of their beliefs. The Catholic Church is the only true Church, with the fullness of the truth and the fullness of the means of salvation. I know Protestants can be saved, but if they resist the true Church their chances are not good, seeing as "invincible ignorance" has to include, well, "ignorance." Protestants who say it doesn't matter what church you go to are no longer "ignorant," they are just "indifferent." Maybe there is an "invincible indifference," but I have never heard of such a thing. If you want to be saved, you should be Catholic. I have read that there are extraordinary means of grace outside the Church, but these are "extra"-ordinary, meaning the exception and not the rule. Believing in Jesus is not enough. Loving Jesus is not enough. One must believe in and love Jesus in the right way, in the Church which He instituted among men for their salvation, the ark of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 So, um, what was the point of your post apart from telling us about a bad experience you've had and then making gross sweeping generalisations and somehow arriving at the conclusion that your church is right and everyone else is wrong? (This place is starting to sound like a broken record, can't anyone come up with anything new to say?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 I asked a question jas does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Yeah, sorry, forgot about that one when I was reading (and replying to) kdewolf2's post. Salvos = Salvation Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Is that a popular church where you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Not one of the ones you hear about the most on my side of the country (well, not as a church, they're one of the biggest social welfare organisations in Australia). Soundy would probably be a better person to answer that question though cause he's involved with a salvo church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 Salvation Army is a growing chruch. The founder William Booth was one of the most evangelical Christians that I know of! He wa real to the community, he went out onto the streets to preech the gospel. To find out more about them click here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. Other Pentecostals believe that you are not truly a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. Pentecostals are known to be very puritanical. Many Pentecostals are also very unecumenical. I went to a Pentecostal church one time in Maryland. The whole service was "Glory! Glory!" I am not saying all Pentecostals are like this. These are just my impressions from what limited experience I have of them. Admittedly, it is not very positive. I know only three Pentecostals personally, and I don't really like any of them, but I don't think its because of their beliefs. ok...I've just hacked your quote to shorten it Everything you wrote abt the Pentecostals: I've seen it too.... BUT I DON'T AGREE OR BELIEVE THAT WAY! They're the over-hyped hypocrits who give us a bad name. Just like the Catholic church has members like that. EVERY CHURCH has "Sunday Christians" who rock up on Sunday, go thru the motions and act all holy....then come Monday...and who would guess they ever stepped foot in a church? Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. What are you implying here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 So, um, what was the point of your post apart from telling us about a bad experience you've had and then making gross sweeping generalisations and somehow arriving at the conclusion that your church is right and everyone else is wrong? (This place is starting to sound like a broken record, can't anyone come up with anything new to say?)Okay, I guess my bad experiences with Pentecostals aren't that interesting. There really was no point in mentioning them. Forgive me. But I did not make "sweeping gross generalizations" and "somehow arrive at the conclusion that my church is right and everyone else is wrong." First, I did not make any generalizations. I just said my impressions of Pentecostals were not positive, but I explicitly said that I didn't presume all Pentecostals were like that. I know there are many Catholics who aren't all that great either. Fr. Geoghan. Case in point. Ted Kennedy. 'Nother case in point. I did not arrive at the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the true Church based on bad experiences with Pentecostals or "sweeping generalizations" which I did not make. After all, that might just prove that the Lutherans are right and everyone else is wrong, or maybe even the Buddhists. I admit that the transition between my account of my bad experiences with Pentecostals and my affirmation of the truth of Catholicism is not altogether clear. I should have left that out. But let me make my point clearer. The Catholic Church alone has the fullness of truth and of the means of salvation. If you want to be saved, you should be Catholic. Obviously, not all Catholics are going to heaven, and not all Pentecostals are going to hell. But indifference puts you in a precarious position vis-a-vis the eternal salvation of your soul. Invincible ignorance, which Catholic theologians tell us make it clear that non-Catholics can be saved, doesn't cover people who know about the Church and its teachings but don't care because of their relativistic attitudes. The Church is the Ark of Salvation. It is called that for a reason. This is not about my church "right" and everyone else's church being "wrong." This is about making it clear to you, and everyone else, that it really does matter whether you are Catholic or not. The Church has repeatedly condemned religious indifferentism and relativism. Not all religions are equal. Everybody here keeps saying the same thing because it is really, really, really, really, really, important and they just want to make sure the point gets acrost. Can anyone come up with anything new to say? A typically Protestant complaint. The Protestant obsession with innovation has spawned a godzillion different churches each with its own theology each presumptuous enough to equate itself with the ONE, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. QUOTE Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Most Holy Trinity. What are you implying here? I am implying that Oneness Pentecostals are not Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 sound guy makes a post to say he loves you.... and look what you've done to it.... you've turned it into a "we condemn all you believe in, you're going to hell" post i think you kinda proved his whole point... now you'll most likely bash me for this post and thus the cycle begins again... open you're freakin eyes... we are in a world full of hurting people and all you know how to do is condemn them for being different to you. "But everyone hates us, what a blessing!" Hate never stopped Jesus from loving. He forgave the people that killed him. They were the people he came for. This is what I see in you. I pray that you are not truly representatives of you're church. I pray that they would be embarrassed of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Steve, once again you fail to see that we have not been unloving; we're just stating what's true. We haven't condemned anyone, but we HAVE pointed out error when it was necessary to do so. And speaking of loving, was it loving for you to come here and lie about the Catholic Church and then refuse to listen to what we had to say in response? Loving and lying are NOT compatible! Forget about the speck in everyone else's eye, and focus instead on THE LOG IN YOUR OWN EYE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 and there's the closed mindedness once again.... they are only lies from your point of view.... you don't correct people reasonably...you just go for the whole "THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE, THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST BELIEVE" approach... see, im not saying that you are wrong, im just saying that there are better ways of going about things... You never consider the the point of view of others... you just expect everyone to be like you otherwise you see them as inferior and let them know about it too... you know what... as far as God's concerned, we are brothers... we are both just as much losers as each other and he loves us regardless... When God looks into our hearts, im exactly the same as you... a sinner who he loves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[jas] Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 (edited) Do both of you guys want to cool it any time soon, or at least take it to PMs, rather than clogging up three threads with these silly arguments? How about getting some civilised debate, not just name calling? EDIT: PMs meaning private messages, to avoid confusion Edited September 1, 2003 by [jas] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I don't hate pentecostals. That's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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