ICTHUS Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 [quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2004, 03:25 PM'] that why I fail to see things the way you do...you want just scripture...fine...I'll take everything you have...plus tradition and letters and writing of those who went before me, knew the aposltes, knew their teaching that werent recorded in scripture etc etc. Never does any of this debunk or lessen the importance of scripture. You are content on scripture alone when you could have that plus more...more...more!!!!! [/quote] Why would I want more, when I know that the only thing that comes 100% from God is Scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 thats not the only thing that comes 100% from God, you are blind if you think that...I happy you are content with just scripture maybe we just disagree. Keep living your life after Chrit's footsteps. -Kiel ps I as well as others would be willing to formally debate you about the immaculate conception using scripture, since that all you feel has value when it comes to the early church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jul 18 2004, 07:56 PM'] Why would I want more, when I know that the only thing that comes 100% from God is Scripture? [/quote] Where is the canon enumerated in Scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jul 18 2004, 08:16 PM'] Where is the canon enumerated in Scripture? [/quote] It isn't, but there was a general consensus among the early Church as to what Scriptures, at least in the NT, were canonical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jul 18 2004, 08:21 PM'] It isn't, but there was a general consensus among the early Church as to what Scriptures, at least in the NT, were canonical. [/quote] Thank you. You have just admitted that the [i]Sola Scriptura[/i] doctrine is in error, because as you readily admit, you rely on things not found in Scripture in order to know the extent and limits of the inspired texts. Thanks again for your total capitulation, and God bless you, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
point5 Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jul 18 2004, 10:21 PM'] It isn't, but there was a general consensus among the early Church as to what Scriptures, at least in the NT, were canonical. [/quote] Actually that isn't correct. You would find churches reading Pope Clements letter to the Corinthians just as often as you would find them reading Pauls letter to the Corinthians. The Churches also used the Didache as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 I remain unanswered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jul 18 2004, 07:56 PM'] Why would I want more, when I know that the only thing that comes 100% from God is Scripture? [/quote] The Gospels were written by men were they not? Who are you to say that the Church is any different from these MEN? The Church is not perfect, there are still unknowns. But who says the Apostles knew everything? I would also like you to find proof the Trinity in the Holy Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 [quote name='ICTHUS' date='Jul 18 2004, 07:56 PM'] Why would I want more, when I know that the only thing that comes 100% from God is Scripture? [/quote] You act like scripture interprets itself but it doesn't. If it did, all Christians would not differ on faith and morals. Like St. Jerome said, "The Scriptures consist not in the reading but in the understanding:" But what are we to do when we have a different understanding to get to the objective truth? Do you rely on your personal judgment? Is truth dependent on the relative individual? Is this in the Bible? I follow the Bible in that I take it to the one Church that Christ established (Matt 18:15-18) when I disagree with someone on doctrine. I stand on the pillar and foundation of truth, the Church (1 Tim 3:15). But it seems to me that Protestant standing on their relative private, judgment kind of like Korah, Dathan and Abiram (Num 16). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 [quote name='Luthien' date='Jul 20 2004, 02:21 PM'] The Gospels were written by men were they not? Who are you to say that the Church is any different from these MEN? The Church is not perfect, there are still unknowns. But who says the Apostles knew everything? I would also like you to find proof the Trinity in the Holy Scripture. [/quote] Just some fraternal advice: this type of argument will never win Protestants to the Catholic Church. Any argument for Sacred Tradition which could any way be construed as denigrating Sacred Scripture will only drive them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I was in no way demeaning the Scripture. I was merely pointing out that it was men who were inspired by the Spirit to write the texts. I was saying that Sacred Tradition does have a place in Christianity, as much as Sacred Scripture. Pax Christi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I realize that you didn't intend to insult Scripture but when Protestants hear Catholics talking about how unclear Scripture is and how you can't prove the Trinity with it, they take it as an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 Also, the trinity CAN be proven in scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 As a former Protestant myself, it is my opinion that when dealing with Protestants, a Catholic must reject in an absolute and unequivocal manner the human doctrine of [i]sola scriptura[/i]. If the Protestant takes this rejection as an attack on scripture itself, so be it, because true conversion will only come by grace, and not by an equivocal spirit intent on not offending pious Protestant ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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