dUSt Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Bonus: He'd be the first president with a beard since Benjamin Harrison in 1893. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) I wish we could elect someone like this. Also it would be great instead of just claiming they will ban abortion they also work on strategies to help the mothers so they aren't pressured into abortion to begin. Financial help ect I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. But it's obvious Trump and Republican politicians don't sincerely care about the unborn. On August 5th Lila Rose tweeted: Under the Trump administration, funding for Planned Parenthood has already reached unprecedented levels. The abortion chain receives more money today than they did under the Obama administration. It’s time to hold them accountable for their crimes against children! Edited August 16, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I understand this party supports ending qualified immunity for police. That's a non starter. Unless .... We also make it legal for cops to sue states attorneys for malicious prosecution. Currently prosecutors have what is called "absolute immunity." And we also make it legal for cops to sue cities, individuals, and their estates for physical and mental injury on the job. So, for example, the cops who died of covid19 due to exposure to BLM demonstrations could sue the people who attended or more likely, the organizations that arranged the demonstrations in violation of emergency health and safety orders. (Covid 19 deaths are classed as line of duty deaths - line of duty deaths would be very expensive for BLM) And we would also need to make it legal for cops to sue individuals and their estates when complaints are filed that turn out to be not substantiated. (90% plus turn out that way.) Also, police should have the same rights as civilians re:assault. Currently the practice is a cop's peace "cannot be breached" - which means you can walk up 6 inches from a cops face and scream "die flooping pig" for 3 hrs straight and nothing will happen. Whereas if you did that to a civilian, you'd be arrested for assault (eg uttering "fighting words"). You'd get a nice shiny violent criminal record to follow you around as long as you draw breath. We'd also need to strip qualified immunity from everyone who has it - social workers, teachers, firemen, streets and san, all politicians and city councils of course. Fair is fair. Of course the whole idea is a fools errand, engineered by people who don't know what qualified immunity is or how it works. Qualified immunity is not a piece of legislation, it is a judicial doctrine created by the Supreme court. They're the ones who would have to overturn themselves to cancel qualified immunity. That will never happen in part due to the extraordinary number of extremely wealthy and powerful people who could then be sued should public official qualified immunity be cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 in the three national elections I've voted in, I've never voted for a repub or dem for prez. After America's cities turned into a drainage basin for liberal arts campus ethics, I really considered voting for Trump. And that hurt, because I think the guy is essentially a narcissist, possibly racist, and says really really stupid things on regular occasion. But man I don't know, it's a tough call. I live in Massachusetts so we go blue anyways. But the ASP candidate looks solid. He has no chance tho, let's be real. But perhaps it's a way to show my displeasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Ice_nine said: in the three national elections I've voted in, I've never voted for a repub or dem for prez. After America's cities turned into a drainage basin for liberal arts campus ethics, I really considered voting for Trump. And that hurt, because I think the guy is essentially a narcissist, possibly racist, and says really really stupid things on regular occasion. But man I don't know, it's a tough call. I live in Massachusetts so we go blue anyways. But the ASP candidate looks solid. He has no chance tho, let's be real. But perhaps it's a way to show my displeasure. I show my displeasure by writing in Mickey Mouse. They are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 8/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, Lilllabettt said: I understand this party supports ending qualified immunity for police. That's a non starter. Does the party want to end it? I had not heard anything going that far. Here is what I found on their website: https://solidarity-party.org/2020/06/05/police-brutality-and-qualified-immunity/ https://solidarity-party.org/about-us/platform/#CriminalSub But I didn't read anything that indicates that they want a complete end to it. On 8/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, Lilllabettt said: Unless .... We also make it legal for cops to sue states attorneys for malicious prosecution. Currently prosecutors have what is called "absolute immunity." And we also make it legal for cops to sue cities, individuals, and their estates for physical and mental injury on the job. So, for example, the cops who died of covid19 due to exposure to BLM demonstrations could sue the people who attended or more likely, the organizations that arranged the demonstrations in violation of emergency health and safety orders. (Covid 19 deaths are classed as line of duty deaths - line of duty deaths would be very expensive for BLM) And we would also need to make it legal for cops to sue individuals and their estates when complaints are filed that turn out to be not substantiated. (90% plus turn out that way.) Also, police should have the same rights as civilians re:assault. Currently the practice is a cop's peace "cannot be breached" - which means you can walk up 6 inches from a cops face and scream "die flooping pig" for 3 hrs straight and nothing will happen. Whereas if you did that to a civilian, you'd be arrested for assault (eg uttering "fighting words"). You'd get a nice shiny violent criminal record to follow you around as long as you draw breath. We'd also need to strip qualified immunity from everyone who has it - social workers, teachers, firemen, streets and san, all politicians and city councils of course. Fair is fair. I don't see why qualified immunity must be applied equally to all public professions in order to have fairness. With many other things we do not apply them equally to all public professions. It is not as though the police officer gets the same salary and other benefits as the social worker or the district attorney. Its not as if a social worker or fireman who pulls out his gun and shoots someone while on the job, will get the same level of deference as would a police officer who kills someone while on the job. Each job is different and has a unique set of benefits and obligations. On 8/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, Lilllabettt said: Of course the whole idea is a fools errand, engineered by people who don't know what qualified immunity is or how it works. Qualified immunity is not a piece of legislation, it is a judicial doctrine created by the Supreme court. They're the ones who would have to overturn themselves to cancel qualified immunity. Well if it is judicially created doctrine it can be legislated out. You have cases all the time where courts rule a certain way, and then the legislature steps in and passes a law for the purpose of overturning what the court did. If the basis for qualified immunity is found in the US constitution you could not legislate it out, but I don't think that is the case (correct me if I am wrong). That being said - I still think it is a good idea to have qualified immunity for police officers. If civil lawsuits are being filed I think it is better that they be filed against the City/State instead of against individual police officers, who have a hard enough job as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Peace said: Does the party want to end it? I had not heard anything going that far. Here is what I found on their website: https://solidarity-party.org/2020/06/05/police-brutality-and-qualified-immunity/ https://solidarity-party.org/about-us/platform/#CriminalSub But I didn't read anything that indicates that they want a complete end to it. I don't see why qualified immunity must be applied equally to all public professions in order to have fairness. With many other things we do not apply them equally to all public professions. It is not as though the police officer gets the same salary and other benefits as the social worker or the district attorney. Its not as if a social worker or fireman who pulls out his gun and shoots someone while on the job, will get the same level of deference as would a police officer who kills someone while on the job. Each job is different and has a unique set of benefits and obligations. Well if it is judicially created doctrine it can be legislated out. You have cases all the time where courts rule a certain way, and then the legislature steps in and passes a law for the purpose of overturning what the court did. If the basis for qualified immunity is found in the US constitution you could not legislate it out, but I don't think that is the case (correct me if I am wrong). That being said - I still think it is a good idea to have qualified immunity for police officers. If civil lawsuits are being filed I think it is better that they be filed against the City/State instead of against individual police officers, who have a hard enough job as it is. Yes, basically, they want to end it for police. It's a "tool of oppression" For the benefit of those reading qualified immunity doesn't come into play when cops break the law or act "unreasonably." It's not a free pass. People who want to end qualified immunity either don't know what it is or have this expectation that cops should be willing to suffer and/or die because "that's what they signed up for." Recently we had a cop in trouble because he shot at a car as the driver tried to run him over. Is it "reasonable" to fire into a car in that situation yes, but some people believe it is morally wrong; the cop should be willing to go splat in the situation, after all he "signed up" to do that (supposedly). So in their minds, even though it's not criminal, there should be a civil penalty - and not just against the city (cities are sued all the time for this) but against the cop personally. The goal being the cop will then hesitate and think of his mortgage and his kids college education and maybe be more willing to go splat. That truly is the goal. Qualified immunity can't be legislated away because it's a "found" right. There is no law establishing qualified immunity; the courts found that this right exists. There are states that have passed laws to cancel qualified immunity. E.g. Colorado. The first time a cop is materially harmed by that law they will sue, and take it up to the supremes, and the supremes will reaffirm their position on qualified immunity. I'm 100% confident because overturning it would be a more massive earthquake than overturning Roe v wade. Not sure how society would function the morning after. Qualified immunity has to apply equally to all public servants because by its very definition it is a principle that protects public servants as they do their duties in good faith. True, a social worker couldn't use qualified immunity to justify using deadly force - cuz the use of deadly force to gain compliance with a lawful order isn't part of her duty. Keeping kids out of abusive situations is. If a social worker follows policy and removes a child from their home and places them in temp foster care, and the child dies in foster care, mom and dad can't go and sue the social worker. The social worker has qualified immunity. If the social worker knew the foster care situation was appalling and unsafe and potentially deadly then maybe her action was in bad faith and qualified immunity doesn't apply. Sue away. Sometime ago we had a dumpster diver get crushed by a streets and san man. Qualified immunity. We regularly have people run over by trains here (mostly mental cases but some drugs). Qualified immunity. Pretty common for firefighters to break stuff and flood homes. Qualified immunity. There's no amount of stretching the courts can do to make the logic of qualified immunity apply to some public servants and not others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 20 hours ago, Lilllabettt said: Yes, basically, they want to end it for police. It's a "tool of oppression" For the benefit of those reading qualified immunity doesn't come into play when cops break the law or act "unreasonably." It's not a free pass. The problem is that because police rarely get prosecuted, let alone convicted, of misconduct, they are pursued civilly, where the burden of proof is lower. The result has been settlements by the city totaling hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade. As a Chicago homeowner, those are my tax dollars. So, whereas I agree that police should be allowed to defend themselves, what do you suggest to combat police misconduct? I have an idea or two, but I want to hear your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) Abortion on demand is not a right.. Nancy It’s a wrong Quote And so we are unleashing the full power of women to take their rightful place in every part of our national life by championing a woman's right to choose and defending Roe v. Wade Nancy Pelosi Vote republican Edited August 21, 2020 by little2add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 It's a shame that third parties don't get as much of a chance of becoming president as Republicans and Democrats. For the last election I just couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump because he disgusts me and knew that Clinton was pro-choice. I voted for Independent nominee Evan McMullen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 1:41 PM, dUSt said: Bonus: He'd be the first president with a beard since Benjamin Harrison in 1893. I hope your serious. You used to give me a butt load of grief for voting third party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Vote Democrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Don’t be a “Nancy” vote pro-life House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced this summer that, despite efforts to remove Hyde for years, abortion supporters in the House would not fight the amendment’s inclusion in the appropriations bill. Some political pundits have speculated that this decision was made to avoid a Senate fight during an election year. Next year, however, things may be different, if Democrats control the whitehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 https://video.foxnews.com/v/6045912474001 https://video.foxnews.com/v/6045912474001#sp=show-clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 11:29 PM, Jaime said: I hope your serious. You used to give me a butt load of grief for voting third party I remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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