Gay Priests

[skuba steve]

no..no..no...

look, im not trying to put you down here... im just saying how you make me feel....

not everyone, just a handful of you...

I know that you believe with all your heart the the full truth can be found in the Catholic Church...

I don't have a big hangup with that.

However, I don't. I don't know whether a lot of the things you believe in are right or wrong and it doesn't really matter to me...

I'm not saying and never have said directly that what your church teaches is wrong. But I believe that I have all the truth I need. I believe that my beliefs are sweet, obviously otherwise i would believe something else.

My problem is not really with your doctrine, your teaching, your beliefs, your interpretation of the bible, etc. Although to be honest I don't agree with some of it...

My problem is with the method that the handful of you go about trying to cram it down my throat... that's not what i asked for...

my problem is with the way i am consistantly told that my church does not have the truth... i don't really care what you think about my church... My beliefs are not based on what the Catholic people think, they are based on the reality of Jesus in my life.

My Problem is that when you tell me that your church is the only church of Jesus, you are implying that my church is not of Jesus and whether that's the truth or not, you are insulting everything i stand for...

And my problem is that, although im secure in myself and my beliefs, many people are not... many people question a whole lot of things and are looking for the truth....

....the truth isn't gonna be found when people are treated like they are inferior.

The truth isn't going to be found when everything that someone stands for is insulted.

the truth cant be found if you don't try to understand where someone is coming from

the truth can't be found when you don't accept that people aren't going to instantly grab hold of what you tell them...

the truth can't be found with intolerance...

the truth can't be found just by telling people that you have it

the truth is Jesus... the truth is only gonna be found when you love people and accept them just as they are like Jesus does...then you can bring them to him and let him reveal to them how they should live their lives

The truth will be found when people can see the character of Jesus in you. and i'll be the first to admitt that i am far from being like Jesus.. i have a long way to go, but my life is dedicated to learning about hm and allowing him to transform me to be more like him so that i can show his amazing love to the world...

...so that by seeing Jesus in me, they will respect the things I have to say. They will want to know more about what they see....

they won't feel condemned

or guilty

they will feel hope....

they will SEE THE TRUTH FOR THEMSELVES....

Think about it... if i was somebody looking for the truth... would I really want to come to you to find it?

[cmotherofpirl]

Steve, nobody ever said you didn't have Jesus in your life.

Nobody ever said your church didn't have God in it.

We are saying you have a part of it, but you can have more.

[jasJis]

Steve,

Good point. Some people might not come accross the best way for you in particular, but it might be the best way for someone else. We are all different people and Witness in different ways. Not everybody is going to connect with you.

We've also come across people who feel all truth is relative, to the point they don't believe in any Absolute Truth. Not all truth is Absolute, but God is Absolute Truth. I think we agree on that.

We are all called to seek God the best and most honest way we can. I would hope that all followers of a Christian denomination are sincerely seeking Jesus the best way the possibly can, by listening to their mind and heart.

Be a little patient. Things will work out. You're not the only non-Catholic Christian here. We have a few that have been here a long time. Finding a way to mutually respect each other takes a little time.

Patience grasshopper

[skuba steve]

they were nice posts...thanks

but if i had come to you looking for the truth.... it would be too late...

id be a mormon or aerobics instructor instead by now.

hehe

[dUSt]

May the love of Christ be with you skuba.

My problem is not really with your doctrine, your teaching, your beliefs, your interpretation of the bible, etc. Although to be honest I don't agree with some of it...

I hope you realize that when you say you don't agree with our teching and beliefs, essentially, you're saying that you think we're wrong.

I'm not offended. I just wanted you to realize that just like you accuse some of us of bashing your beliefs by saying they are wrong--you just did the same--only with more subtle language.

My problem is with the method that the handful of you go about trying to cram it down my throat... that's not what i asked for...

I agree with you. I don't believe that cramming info down someone's throat is a good method at all. I'm content with answering questions where I can and letting the Holy Spirit do his work.

With that said--by making comments on your beliefs, whether it be in question form or not, it will no doubt solicit responses. Just be prepared for that.

my problem is with the way i am consistantly told that my church does not have the truth...

I'm sure Jews and Muslims are tired of hearing about Jesus Christ. Does this mean that we should stop evangalizing to them?

i don't really care what you think about my church...

This actually makes me sad. I do care what people think about my church, as I want people to get to know Christ.

My Problem is that when you tell me that your church is the only church of Jesus, you are implying that my church is not of Jesus and whether that's the truth or not, you are insulting everything i stand for...

Whoever said Jesus is not present in other Christian churches? Aren't you insulting everything we stand for by telling us that the Catholic church does not contain the fullness of truth? It's a 2-way street.

....the truth isn't gonna be found when people are treated like they are inferior.

I agree. I hope that I never make you feel inferior. If I do, please let me know.

i have a long way to go, but my life is dedicated to learning about hm and allowing him to transform me to be more like him so that i can show his amazing love to the world...

I have no doubt that if you live this way you'll someday see God face to face in Heaven.

God bless.

[skuba steve]

I hope you realize that when you say you don't agree with our teching and beliefs, essentially, you're saying that you think we're wrong.

i don't mind if you don't agree with what I believe in.... i don't mind if you say "steve, i don't agree with that" that's fine... go for your life...

and your not guilty of this dust....

but some people

are more like.... "you are wrong and this is what you must believe in."

see the difference???

i don't mind knowing if you don't agree....i dont mind if you believe with your whole heart that i am going to hell.... that's fine....i already know that many of you think i'm wrong...

but tell me that's what you believe, don't tell me that I have to believe it...

i'm old enough to make my own decisions.

[cmotherofpirl]

You don't have to believe anything steve.

We simply offer the teachings from the 2000 year old Church founded by Christ.

Nobody ever said anything about you going to hell.

THats between you and God.

PAX

[skuba steve]

nah, no one did....

but do you understand what i mean???

[Joolye]

they were nice posts...thanks

but if i had come to you looking for the truth.... it would be too late...

id be a mormon or aerobics instructor instead by now.

hehe

Steve, budda, you be careful in what you say too.

[Unshackled]

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Please note that God specifically categorises homosexuality as sin. He does not distinguish it from all other sins. Therefore how could the pope have the authority to oppose God's will? No man who deliberately chooses to live contrary to God's will should be allowed to hold a position of authority in any church.

Titus 1: 7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.

8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

[cmotherofpirl]

1 Cor 6:9  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

10  nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

  Please note that God specifically categorises homosexuality as sin. He does not distinguish it from all other sins. Therefore how could the pope have the authority to oppose God's will? No man who deliberately chooses to live contrary to God's will should be allowed to hold a position of authority in any church.

Titus 1: 7  Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.

8  Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

9  He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Homosexual acts are sinful. However not all people with homosexual feelings act on them. THe act is sinful , not the feeling.

You do not condemn people for their thoughts, only their actions.

[FreeSoul]

**Free does an impression of a so-called 'debate' on phatmass**

Steve,

We don't mean to make you feel that way...but the fact is there is nothing else but the teachings of the Catholic Church in life, and everything else is wrong. We are going to sugar coat it and dance around the fact that we are truly closed-minded, and say sentances that begin with

"we are not saying we don't love you"

"we care about you"

"we can't say you're going to hell"

But what we are really trying to say is "If you don't agree with what we are trying to explain to you we are simply going to remind you that there is an absolute truth (which we along with God possess) and that if you disagree with us you (like us) are still a sinner but we should just let you know that you are a GRAVE sinner, and that if you don't shape up or ship out of the Church (and yes, they will tell you to ship out if you don't concurr) than basically you're in it deep.

And no Steve, on this board your experience or faith counts for nothing in the debate. The only thing that counts is whether your experience jives with the rules.

[Winchester]

Ah, the split-tongued attacks of the truly bigoted...

[Norseman82]

People who speed get into a lot of rear end collisions. It's dangerous to speed.

Hey, I'm still alive!!!

[Norseman82]

Jesus founded the Christian church, not the Roman Catholic Church. He founded the catholic (meaning 'universal' church). Then as time went on the Catholic Church came into existence, and brought in extra things, then time passed, and some people realised that they should go back to the basics - the Word of God - the Bible.

For that to be true, there would have to have been a mass resignation/deposing of all the bishops of the church and replacement with invalid ones. The only time in history where something even close to that occurred (that I am aware of) is in Elizabethan England.