Gay Priests

[Joolye]

The Uniting Church in Australia has made a resolution that allows individual presbyteries to ordain gay ministers if they want to. There is a big uproar about this within the UC and many people are against it.

So what are your thoughts on this? Does anyone here think that it is okay for homosexuals to be ordained?

I'm against it.

[Aloysius]

we be against it 2

the Vatican recently put out a statement saying that homosexuals should not be ordained to the priesthood.

pray 4 ur Church that they will find the way 2 deal with this issue. i read the thing on the Youth Alive board. Hopefully they can discover the way to say God doesn't hate homosexuals but homosexual acts are a grave sin.

i think priests should be celibate all-together. Not that married men can't be ordained, but as St. Paul said in advice to widows it is preferable not to remarry to devote your entire self to God instead, as he did. i completely went away from the issue, srry.

Pax et Amo Christi!

[Joolye]

I think it should be up to priest to decide whether they want to be married and be a priest. It would stop them from lusting, if they had tendencies to do so. You always hear about Catholic priests doing naughty things sexually, and I think if they were married, it may reduce the chances of that happening.

In 1 Cor 5, it says that we should expel the wicked people from the church. It looks like the UC were too slow in acting upon this that things have gotten as far as they have, and instead of those with the wrong thoughts leaving the church, it looks like those who are sticking to the Word of God will be leaving the UC, as those with the wrong thoughts have too much of a stronghold in the UC. It should never have been allowed to get this far.

Praise God I'm a Baptist and only go to a UC.

[Dave]

If they intend not to be chaste, of course they shouldn't be ordained.

However, if they DO intend to be chaste, they STILL shouldn't be ordained.

The reason?

Who is it that can be priests? Men.

Where do would-be priests go to study for the priesthood? Seminaries.

Who will you find at seminaries? Men.

Not only are we supposed to avoid sin, we're also supposed to avoid the near occasions of sin. For a gay man to enter the seminary, where he's surrounded by men 24/7, no matter how good his intentions are, would be a HUGE temptation. If such a man could handle such temptation, then he'd have some REALLY HEROIC VIRTUE! If there's anyone out there like that, my hat's off to them! However, let's be realistic -- most people aren't that strong. So why risk offending God?

[Dave]

I think it should be up to priest to decide whether they want to be married and be a priest. It would stop them from lusting, if they had tendencies to do so. You always hear about Catholic priests doing naughty things sexually, and I think if they were married, it may reduce the chances of that happening.

No, allowing priests to be married would not make any difference about priests lusting or committing other sexual sins. Various studies have shown that pedophiles are MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE MARRIED. However, being a pedophile is something that goes much deeper than one's marital status. We can't blame that on celibacy.

[vianney]

Number one divorce rate is among protestant ministers and their wives. Betcha didnt know that one did ya. And by the way, Less then two percent of priests have sexual problems when it comes to molestation. That would be like saying all married ppl cheat on their spouses. And being celibate is a beautiful thing, even saint paul writes that for those who are called to the celibate life for the kingdom of God are truly blessed. I wouldnt be so quick to shoot things off without understanding them.

[hyperdulia again]

Catholic priests (in the Roman Rite) are required to be celibate and all Catholics, priests or not, gay or straight, married or not, are called to chastity. If a homosexual person is chaste and has recieved a calling from Almighty God to serve His Church as a priest, then no one else has any right to say that the homosexual person who has been called should not be ordained.

[ironmonk]

Catholic priests (in the Roman Rite) are required to be celibate and all Catholics, priests or not, gay or straight, married or not, are called to chastity.  If a homosexual person is chaste and has recieved a calling from Almighty God to serve His Church as a priest, then no one else has any right to say that the homosexual person who has been called should not be ordained.

The Pope does.

"Whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven, whatever you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven."

God does call all men (as in human), if the Pope says that ssa men cannot be priests, then God is calling those men for something else.

Some men that have ssa have became priests because they think it will help them stay chaste, but that is not the case.

I don't think there is a definite answer for this one (unless the Pope gave one - not sure of that), but if the Pope did not give a rule, then it should be looked at on an individual basis.

Also, it has caused scandal within the Church of those that have became priests and fell from their vows.

It could be a huge stumbling block for a man with ssa to live with other men.

Just as it would be a stumbling block for me to live in an all women's dorm.

We are suppose to avoid sin.

It could be better for both the men with ssa, and for the Church, if men with ssa found other ways to serve God other than the priesthood. Men with ssa should and can still serve God through the Church in many other ways. Maybe God is calling some of the men with ssa to speak the beauty of the Church teachings of ssa.

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary,

ironmonk

[Luke2219]

I can't speak very well on the subject, but I do know that allowing priest to marry would not keep them any more chaste. It would most likely make them more likely to sin in that area. The idea that people have to have sex to be normal is the big lie that is destroying our culture. No one ever died of virginity!

A priest with SSA should not be ordained. Men with SSA are already called to be celibate due to the fact that any sex outside marriage is wrong. So, since they must be celibate anyway, they cannot take a vow of celibacy. You can't take a vow not to do something sinful, or something that you would not do anyway. Men with SSA cannot take a vow of celibacy and therefore should not be ordained. If however, a man overcomes SSA, as many do, he could then pursue the married life, priesthood, or religious life, if he were called to do so. But until that time his only option is as a chaste celibate. At first glance, that seems like such a bad deal, but if that is what you are called to by God, then it is a very beautiful thing. Is it better for a man to be married or a priest? Which is a higher calling? The answer we know is whatever God has called you to. The same for singlehood. What a tremendous blessing to have the grace to do what God wants you to do. Put your faith in God and all things will be given to you.

[Joolye]

What does SSA mean? I'm guessing from the context it means Same Sex Attraction, but we don't have that abbreviation in Australia, so I'm not sure.

Anyway, I certainly don't belive that homosexuals should be ordained, whether practising or not. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is wrong. And even if a gay person is not practising, but thinks it is okay to be gay, that is completely wrong! Because his beliefs are wrong, then he should not be ordained.

I would believe that many Protestant ministers marriages fail. Especially if they are doing great things for God. There is a spiritual war at hand, and the devil will do anything he can to destroy the work of God, and that can include attacking ministers' marriages.

On another topic...

Are women allowed to preach in the Catholic church?

[Luke2219]

Your right, SSA means same sex attraction. Gay or homosexual are words most often used to describe people who openly accept homosexuality and embrace that lifestyle. People with SSA are those who know that homosexual desires are disordered and are struggling to overcome them.

Yes is is even worse to ordain a priest who says it is okay to embrace the homosexual lifestyle. No one who openly rejects Church teaching should be ordained.

As for women preaching in the Catholic Church, the answer depends on what you mean by that. Durring mass, if they are a lector, they can procaim the Word of God. These are the reading from the Bible that are said at each mass. The preaching, the sermon, or the homily (as it is called by Catholics) can only be done by a deacon, priest, or bishop. Since women cannot be ordained, in that sense, no, they cannot preach. However, there are times (rare), when before or after mass there is an additional sermon. This can be anyone approved by the pastor including of course women. Women can also write books, speak at seminars, teach in Catholic schools or any other place a man could preach. The only place they are excluded in the homily (sermon durring the mass) and that isn't because they are women, but because they are not ordained.

[Joolye]

Wow, there's technical definitions now about gay people! I thought gay was gay! Of course I recognise that there are people who recognise that it is wrong and want to change.

Hmm, I preached in church last Sunday.

I believe baptists and pentecostals believe in the 'priesthood of all believers'. It is interesting at the Uniting Church, only the pastor and elders can administer the Lord's Supper, whereas at the baptist church it is not limited as such.

[Luke2219]

Catholics believe the the 'priesthood of all believers' as well. But there remains a difference between the lay people and those who are ordained.

Good to hear you preached in church last Sunday. I'm sure it wasn't the homily of a Catholic mass so good for you. Keep proclaiming the Word!

[Good Friday]

I don't think any man, heterosexual or homosexual, should be ordained to the Latin Rite priesthood if he intends to be anything other than celibate. Obviously, any homosexual who intends to be anything other than celibate should not be ordained the Eastern Rite priesthoods either, nor do I feel that active homosexuals should be ordained in Protestant churches (but that's really up to them, they're not my churches). The ordination of active homosexuals is to be expected in Protestantism. If they'll disobey the Church Jesus founded over one thing, they'll disobey her over another.

Who is it that can be priests? Men.

Where do would-be priests go to study for the priesthood? Seminaries.

Who will you find at seminaries? Men.

Not only are we supposed to avoid sin, we're also supposed to avoid the near occasions of sin. For a gay man to enter the seminary, where he's surrounded by men 24/7, no matter how good his intentions are, would be a HUGE temptation. If such a man could handle such temptation, then he'd have some REALLY HEROIC VIRTUE!  If there's anyone out there like that, my hat's off to them! However, let's be realistic -- most people aren't that strong. So why risk offending God?

This is completely unfair. People who have SSAs are not animals who need to be locked in a padded cell to contain their animal urges. We've had this discussion before, and I have explained to you more than once that having SSAs affects any vocation in this society -- the married vocation, the priestly vocation, the religious vocation, or even the single vocation. We've discussed how, based on your reasoning, people with SSAs really shouldn't be able to go to college either, or take gym class in high school. After all, in gym class they change with other men. In college, most will live with another male roommate and many will have a communal shower for at least their first year in college.

People with SSAs would not be able to go to summer camp, spend the night at friends' houses, and many other things... all based on your reasoning. Perhaps y'all should just fire up an Inquisition to exterminate all of us? Or at the very least, as mentioned before, certainly we should be isolated in our own padded cells to contain our animal lusts.

I'm sorry if that seemed harsh, but I don't think y'all realize how offensive some of the stuff you post really is. This might be a cut and dry issue for you, but then you don't have to live with it.

If the Vatican orders me not to be a priest, I'll comply. But I will not agree with it, especially if it uses the above reasoning, because the above reasoning has the potential to isolate people with SSAs from all aspects of society. I'd hate to see Catholics indulge in "gay ghettos" as Hitler indulged in the Jewish ghettos.

[hyperdulia again]

monk, you're right the pope has the authority to say whether or not homosexuals will be ordained, but he doesn't have the authority to make a general statement about whether or not they will be. that prob'ly makes no sense, but children are crawling on me.