Beware of Bishop Schneider

[chrysostom]

Okay. Not sure how to respond if you just post links to the same piece without commentary.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, chrysostom said:

Ah, I remember that article. Firmly in the "they looked at me wrong" school of journalism.

This is what you just said. Based off that  it doesn't sound like you read it. It was a little more than "they looked at me wrong". A tad more cultish.

 

[ardillacid]

Don't you think it's weird that someone would refer to praying the rosary as torture? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ardillacid said:

Don't you think it's weird that someone would refer to praying the rosary as torture? 

No not when it was a permanent daily penance for the forgivess of sins for the rest of your life. Give me a ******* break lol

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Delivery said:

forgivess

forgiveness

Edited May 2, 2020 by Guest

[chrysostom]

9 hours ago, Delivery said:

This is what you just said. Based off that  it doesn't sound like you read it. It was a little more than "they looked at me wrong". A tad more cultish.

If you want quotes of what I was referring to, here they are:

Quote

After over an hour spent every Sunday drowning in incense smoke and getting sneered at, we did not feel any closer to God.

Quote

Unsurprisingly I found myself surrounded by veiled women who entertained themselves in between kneeling bouts by casting disapproving glances at my leggings and earrings.

 

[MIKolbe]

1 hour ago, Delivery said:

No not when it was a permanent daily penance for the forgivess of sins for the rest of your life. Give me a ******* break lol

srsly?

rosary everyday = torture (iff it's penance)

While I personally find a penance like that seems to like any semblance of pastoral care, it's not torture *hyperbolically or literally*.

I love you dude, but get a grip.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MIKolbe said:

srsly?

rosary everyday = torture (iff it's penance)

While I personally find a penance like that seems to like any semblance of pastoral care, it's not torture *hyperbolically or literally*.

I love you dude, but get a grip.

I started praying the Rosary again everyday. Somedays I miss but I make up the day I missed the next time I pray. So pray two in one day ect My goal is to keep this up indefinitely and not stop like I did in the past. Who knows but I hope I do. With that said....

If some trad priest told me I had to say the Rosary everyday for the rest of my life to be forgiven of sins I just confessed it could easily become torture. Not necessarily the Rosary itself but being brainwashed into thinking that if I missed it or just couldn't keep it up I would go to hell and not be forgiven of the mortal sins I confessed. If that's not mental and spiritual abuse from a cult I'm not sure what is. Obviously a priest can't do that to a person. But if you're brainwashed you may think he has that power over you to inflict that on you. Like this person's family member thought.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

12 hours ago, Delivery said:

This is what you just said. Based off that  it doesn't sound like you read it. It was a little more than "they looked at me wrong". A tad more cultish.

 

 

Hyperbolic Gossip. Reads like something someone on CARM or Jack Chick would say about Catholics. I very much doubt it's true, more lies. Some truth to it, maybe. Someone'spenance may have been a daily Rosary. But I doubt lifetime, because of the high use of other dramatic hyperbolic wording. Not to mention it's garbage they would reveal someone else's penance and "apparent" lifetime of sin. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

 

Hyperbolic Gossip. Reads like something someone on CARM or Jack Chick would say about Catholics. I very much doubt it's true, more lies. Some truth to it, maybe. Someone'spenance may have been a daily Rosary. But I doubt lifetime, because of the high use of other dramatic hyperbolic wording. Not to mention it's garbage they would reveal someone else's penance and "apparent" lifetime of sin. 

 

 

Calling her a liar and doubting what she said as truth. Sounds similar to how the sexual abuse victims have always been treated. 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Guest

[Anastasia]

Delivery

I have difficulties with figuring out your own point of view because you mostly post something without saying anything; when you later say something it hard to make a connection, at least for me. This is why my comment is probably completely irrelevant.

Yet, I looked into the article of Zita Ballinger Fletcher. She begins with “Latin Mass being a become a rallying point for change-resistant sects within the church”. To my ear, it sounds not just offensive but illogical. If someone loves Latin Mass and it “works” for him better that Novus Ordo that fact alone does not make them a member of “change-resistant sect”.

Next the author says:

“The Latin Mass fosters clericalist structures in the church. The liturgy — spoken in an ancient language no longer in modern vernacular usage — places all power in the hands of the priest. The priest keeps his back turned to the people for most of the ceremony.”

I agree that the Latin Mass looks (to me) more “a priest thing” (but not of a one priest who celebrates Mass, more clerical thing so to speak) than Novus Ordo, and not just because of Latin. Yet I cannot agree that priests’ back has something to with that.

I had a chance to observe several priests (Novus Ordo) who, being narcissistic, made a spectacle of himself, behaving as stars. That would not be possible if they did not face people. A priest who turns his back to people become one of them or a road sign, an arrow.

“Aside from making occasional responses, the congregation plays no active part in worship.”

Yes, it is true and Novus Ordo give much more opportunities to the laity to patriciate in Mass and I appreciate it very much.

“All people inside the church are expected to kneel on cue at various points.”

Yes. And why not? We are before God. I would invite the author to the Orthodox church – we do prostration “at certain points” together with priests.

“The priest is at the center of the spectacle.”

No, he is not – see above. A priest who is turned the same direction as other people mingles with them.

“He is separated from the people he is supposed to serve by an altar rail — a barrier that gives him privileges.“

No, it is simply a boundary between the sanctuary and the rest of the church. It is not because a priest is there – it is because the altar is there.

“To receive the Eucharist, people must kneel at his feet.”

To me it looks like the author forgot Who is in the Eucharist. People kneel before Christ, not a priest. As one of priests in Moscow said “a priest is a shelf for the Eucharist”.

It is getting long already, and I  just began, so I round up. Funny about oppression of women via a headscarf – an author again misses appoint that while women are expected to wear a headscarf, men also are expected to dress quite well.

OK, to the conclusion:

“What I gained from this experience was a deeper recognition of how the Latin Mass foments the clericalist culture within the Catholic Church that Pope Francis is actively working to change.”

No, it does not. What foments the clericalist culture is a certain kind of psyche along narcissistic spectrum: sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, extreme arrogance, attention craving and so on. The antidote to clericalism I think is more focus on God – attention to God, not to a priest. Novus Ordo can be done beautifully and very solemnly (and in fact I prefer Novus Ordo properly done to Latin Mass) but unfortunately Novus Ordo can be too easily degenerated by narcissistic priest, under the cover of “look, I am so familiar, modern, part of you” etc.

I saw clericalism being very present in traditionalist congregation and the most “democratic” (a fake democracy”. In my opinion, it is being “fermented” by a certain kind of a psyche and also because of Roman Catholic teaching about laity (clergy are the teachers and preservers of the doctrine; in Orthodoxy all ecclesia are such – meaning I am obliged to point to a priest his deviation from the teaching, no matter who he is – but this is another story, sorry).

I think Pope Benedict held the view that it is good to have in a parish both kinds of Mass. They are beneficial to each other.

Hence I do not get, even if some cannot stand Latin Mass and think of it as a tool of oppression of women why do they insist on “weeding it out”?

PS “Clericalism defined the response I received. When I informed an assisting priest that the pastor had been very rude to me at the altar and asked that my views be relayed, he replied: "I won't throw our pastor under the bus. He's the pastor. I refuse to tell him to correct his behavior," the priest said.”

Yes. I got the same attitude and response for challenging a priest who was very populist, talked about Pope Francis non-stop and behaved as a little star (Novus Ordo).

Basically, I think the author being offended with the dismissive attitude of the traditionalist clergy (and I sympathize) someone thinks that the solution is to drop solemnity and beauty of the High Mass because priests "use it to be above". But it means to forget that Mass/Liturgy must be beautiful and "above" because it is about God and our souls must rise to Him – not us pulling Him down.

And the clericalism, as I mentioned above, is the product of 1) omitting the majority of ecclesia as preservers of the theological truth 2) the teaching about ontological change of a priest after ordination) 3) banal narcissism 4) sorry, I know it is a touchy subject but I think also the mandatory celibacy; again as one of our (Orthodox) priests said to the seminarians “a wife is the best tool of God to make you humble”.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Anastasia

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Anastasia said:

Delivery

I have difficulties with figuring out your own point of view because you mostly post something without saying anything; when you later say something it hard to make a connection, at least for me. This is why my comment is probably completely irrelevant.

Anastasia God Bless. I hope you're well. I believe I commented briefly on page 5 my thoughts about the article. I thought it was great and I agree with it. I'm not going to debate each quote you quoted. I respect your views. I read them and thanks for sharing them. As I said on the first page I have no problem with the Latin Mass in and of itself.

My thoughts are if trads just went to Latin Mass and didn't do all the extra bs I doubt the article would of been written. But that's not the case. There's always this self righteous pharisaical attitude that goes along with it. The condescending attitude towards people who don't go to Latin Mass. Many of them call the Novus Ordo evil. The attitude of I'm holier than you because I receive on the tounge kneeling. The list goes on and on. Then there's the cultish aspect of it which she laid out perfectly in the article. I encourage everyone to read the full article themselves and draw their own conclusions. God Bless !

https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/latin-mass-becomes-cult-toxic-tradition

Edited May 3, 2020 by Guest

[Anastasia]

21 minutes ago, Delivery said:

I hope you're well.

I am as well thank God as one can be in this "lock up", I hope you are well as well.

I do understand what you mean by the attitude. I even can tell you a story. When I came to Australia I at some point traveled to the capital of our state to participate in the Eastern Orthodox Liturgy. I spend a whole day driving there; I came and was stopped at the entrance by two men. They said I could not enter because I was wearing trousers. Yes, I was, but I also was wearing a very long blouse that reached my knees, and also a headscarf (a headscarf is a tradition in Russian Orthodox Church, it is juts "must"). Being dressed like that I have visited many monasteries and no one ever had a problem with me. Yet, those men did not allow me into the church BUT they allowed into the church women who were wearing mini-skirts (so those women could not even bow down at the entrance as it is prescribed) and many did not wear a headscarf. I told to the men that I came from the outback and need communion - no! So, one of parishioners, a woman, rushed home hereby and brought for me a skirt to put over my trousers. I am tall; a woman was shot, a skirts was not much longer than my blouse - but it satisfied the men at the entrance and I wall let in looking like an idiot.(I am so grateful to that woman though).

Later I learnt it was extremely traditionalist church. So, I guess you speak of such attitude.

Well, I simply did not go there any longer although the priest who received my confession was very kind.

 

Yet, I must add, on some Catholic forums I found very condescending and offensive attitude from “Novus Ordo goers” towards “Tridentine goers” so all this boils down, in my mind, simply to a faulty human psyche and a faulty faith which seeks not God first but other things.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Anastasia

[KnightofChrist]

8 hours ago, Delivery said:

 

 

Calling her a liar and doubting what she said as truth. Sounds similar to how the sexual abuse victims have always been treated. 

 

You've lied in this thread, you outright lied about what the Bishop said. Have you apologized for that yet? The lies belong to you. You've posted bigoted hyperbolic attacks against Catholics in the laziest way possible. 

I don't believe the attack hit piece you posted because I don't trust you anymore at all in anyway. A man that cannot admit error, a man that cannot face reality when he's been proven wrong, a man that states a Bishop said X, when the Bishop said Z is not a man to be trusted. That man is you.

I don't believe her attack piece because it uses far too many hyperboles and offers no proof. I don't care for gossip it's satanic and sinful.

 

Someone on the internet says someone else told her that a priest told them they must pray the Rosary everyday forever. That's classic 'so-n-so told me that so-n-so said' gossip. 

[Guest]