Pell freed

[chrysostom]

It's on any number of news sources. 7-0 unanimous and joint decision to acquit him by the High Court. I've read the decision in its entirety, which I think is the best source for this. My understanding of it is that they decided, based on certain pieces of testimony which all went unchallenged by the prosecution, that a reasonable doubt ought to have been entertained as to his guilt, but was not, and that an innocent man (in their own words) may have been convicted.

[Kateri89]

Oh wow! I had read from several Catholic and non-Catholic sources that there seemed to be significant reason to doubt his guilt including major holes in the allegations.  Obviously nobody but he and the accusers (And God of course) know the truth but if an innocent man now walks free, praise our Lord!

[Lilllabettt]

True or not, it was a political prosecution. They never had enough to bring a case - the only evidence given against him was the testimony of a single person. That person was apparently very credible and held up under cross examination.  But there was no other evidence. (Hopefully we can all agree that the word of a single person, not matter how credible, is not enough to deny reasonable doubt in a matter as serious as this one. ) Prosecutors pursued the Cardinal because he was the "face" of the Church in Australia and there was a desire to punish the Church for her crimes. 

Truly an ongoing waking nightmare for all involved. 

[cruciatacara]

He wasn't acquitted. The court just decided that there was insufficient evidence to prove the case 'beyond reasonable doubt'. 

And this is not the only charge against him. Many of the other accusers can now come forward with their civil action claims, and the Royal Commission can release its findings  into his cover up of clergy sexual abuse in Australia in full, which it had to redact because of the trial. It isn't over for Pell.

It is unfortunate that the event occurred so long ago that this is the outcome. But God will judge Pell in the end.

[Lilllabettt]

40 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

He wasn't acquitted. The court just decided that there was insufficient evidence to prove the case 'beyond reasonable doubt'. 

:facepalm: You just gave the definition of acquitted. He was acquitted. That's literally the definition of the word.

Now, he was not exonerated.  Maybe that's the word you mean. Idk exactly how Australia works but the American legal system rarely exonerates accused criminals (i.e. declares them innocent). 

45 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

 

And this is not the only charge against him. Many of the other accusers can now come forward with their civil action claims, and the Royal Commission can release its findings  into his cover up of clergy sexual abuse in Australia in full, which it had to redact because of the trial. It isn't over for Pell. 

It is true there are civil cases pending against him. He is most likely guilty of covering up abuse, just like Pope Francis. Just like JP2.  Are there any bishops over a certain age with clean hands in this matter, I doubt it.  We need better men. 

50 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

But God will judge Pell in the end.

You seem confident! On that day the vindication of the unjustly accused will burn unbearably hot thru the brains of them who bent the divine gift of language and let drip calumny from the corners of their mouth. I believe the grapes of wrath will have a special vintage prepared for them, since Jesus was unjustly accused, tried and convicted on prejudice more than evidence. Should you be looking forward to judgment day you're over confident my friend. Not that I am accusing you, more like warning. I fear I will drain the cup myself. 

[chrysostom]

13 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

It is unfortunate that the event occurred so long ago that this is the outcome.

If I may be permitted to sound a little sarcastic at this point...what event?

[Lilllabettt]

2 hours ago, chrysostom said:

If I may be permitted to sound a little sarcastic at this point...what event?

Good one.

[cruciatacara]

Come live in Ballarat - then you will understand. But no point in arguing with people who defend abusers. Even the devil can quote scripture.Even Cardinals can be abusers. I know what the law has said.I also know what we victims here have experienced - first hand. But his evilness doesn't define me. God heals all.

[Lilllabettt]

6 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

Come live in Ballarat - then you will understand. But no point in arguing with people who defend abusers. Even the devil can quote scripture.Even Cardinals can be abusers. I know what the law has said.I also know what we victims here have experienced - first hand. But his evilness doesn't define me. God heals all.

Much better to defend a guilty man than accuse an innocent one. Me, personally, I've risked doing neither. You on the other hand. Since you are confident in your judgment, let's hope your love for Cardinal Pell knows no bounds. Let's hope you love him so much you can barely stand it. 

[cruciatacara]

8 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Much better to defend a guilty man than accuse an innocent one. Me, personally, I've risked doing neither. You on the other hand. Since you are confident in your judgment, let's hope your love for Cardinal Pell knows no bounds. Let's hope you love him so much you can barely stand it. 

You completely missed what I said and why I make my judgment, but that's ok. I don't expect you to understand.

[Lilllabettt]

2 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

You completely missed what I said and why I make my judgment, but that's ok. I don't expect you to understand.

Whatever injustice you've suffered (and I tremble for you if it is anything less than molestation at the hands of Cardinal Pell personally, as you seem to suggest here) you're not excused from the demands of the Gospel.

Destroying a man's reputation is the equivalent of murder in our religion. The penalty is severe. This week is a good one for meditating on the fact we will be held to account for every word. I am not accusing you of anything only do not be so confident, that is all. I shudder thinking on the various words of judgment that have proceeded from my mouth. 

[cruciatacara]

9 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Whatever injustice you've suffered (and I tremble for you if it is anything less than molestation at the hands of Cardinal Pell personally, as you seem to suggest here) you're not excused from the demands of the Gospel.

Destroying a man's reputation is the equivalent of murder in our religion. The penalty is severe. This week is a good one for meditating on the fact we will be held to account for every word. I am not accusing you of anything only do not be so confident, that is all. I shudder thinking on the various words of judgment that have proceeded from my mouth. 

Abusing young children is  the equivalent of murder - the murder of their lives and souls. And yes, I do point the finger at him. You are finally beginning to get a glimmer of what I have been saying. More than that I am not prepared to say at this time.I know that the Ballarat Royal Commission Report is preparing to be released in the next few weeks. It probably won't detail his own abuses here - I don't know about that -  but it will most certainly contain damning information about his mismanagement of abuse cases here by other priests. You simply have no frame of reference for what we went through as children here in Ballarat. So it's not your fault that you can't see the truth here. The jury knew it and was right in their verdict. The Appeals Court knew it and was right in their verdict, The High Court felt they should have had reasonable doubt. And since it happened so long ago, it is probably reasonable to have doubt - but it isn't truth. And there isn't justice in this case.

[Norseman82]

What this thread has devolved into: 

 

 

[Guest]

Thank you very much, Norseman.    

And Catholics too - it is just so sad, what a terrible witness to Catholicism and even Pham too - not that I am entirely free of guilt in my own life.  I hope I have woken up to myself.  Hope!

[Lilllabettt]

14 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Thank you very much, Norseman.    

And Catholics too - it is just so sad, what a terrible witness to Catholicism and even Pham too - not that I am entirely free of guilt in my own life.  I hope I have woken up to myself.  Hope!

Lame Barb.

Actually - using a gendered slur such as referring to a discussion in which 2 women exchange strong view points as a "cat fight"  -  is the terrible witness to Catholicism.