Former Nuns

[Nunsuch]

As I said, this seems to be the practice in my diocese, but I don't know that it's an official rule or anything. 

[gloriana35]

On 2/13/2020 at 12:51 AM, Antigonos said:

It must have been painful for you to share this with us, Gloriana35.  Thank you for doing so.

It's been many years, but the pain never is completely gone - and it was terribly intense. If Kim has PTSD that is rooted in her experience of religious life, I would imagine she had experiences far worse than most. 

I intend no disrespect to anyone on this forum in saying this, but believe it deserves a mention. Those who have been thrown out of religious communities, but who still intend to pursue the vocation elsewhere (even if, as happened to me, it ends up being as a solitary - I've been in private vows since 1982), may be pained by some of the 'stock answers' many offer. Joining a third order, for example, does not involve consecrated life (probably few in such groups live a vowed life), and recommending 'you can still be a Secular Franciscan' only makes the pain worse. Some left and chose to marry - not a problem for them, but it's terrible when someone knows she is called to vowed chastity, and others reassure her that God will send her a husband. All of us know the 'correct' answer - oh, I wasn't in final vows; it's only a time of discernment; it's what God wants, not what we want that matters... But how can those who are in a situation such as the one I described not feel that tearing pain, and the sense that no-one understands or will be supportive?

If Kim has no interest in entering religious life again, but still is having PTSD, I can't imagine what she went through with her community (and I'm not asking.) But there indeed are dysfunctional superiors, and it is possible (I could cite a few cases I've seen) that they can view their own odd ways as special holiness or example. They can hide behind that they supposedly are the voice of God.

[Bonkira]

I left a cloistered contemplative heavy-on-the-silence order just before I reached solemn vows. It was a process of growing shock for me over the last 2 or so years there as I came to really know in my body, mind, and soul that this was not where I was meant to be. It was in large part to the community present at the time; in looking back through the help of a good counselor, things were quite harmful and downright dangerous in many ways. Those last couple years were really discerning that I did not need the cloister to engage in the internal life I have with the holy ones, or the oversight of what was a damaged system...so I left. 

It was wrenching in a lot of ways, but really drove home to me that my mystic life is mine, and is best lived with the input of a good spiritual director and that I personally do not need the vows or the cloister to live that out. Once in awhile I dream about being back in the monastery, but it is either an outright nightmare or it is forming a narrative that never existed (nice people, a solid community, etc).

I spent a lot of time angry with holy ones because what took me out of the monastery was not of my own design...there was not a way to remain and remain whole. After all, I said yes to enclosure and the vows, and they led me to a community that failed me and then followed that with the church failing me by not being involved in the community and providing appropriate oversight. But...I don't need to be angry and when I am, I can place that at the feet of the holy ones and let them decide what to do with it rather than trying to hold onto it.

As much as religious life is a gift for some, it can be a terribly flawed burden, and we are often better for leaving.

[Thomist]

Hello! 

Former ex-con(vent) here.

First, thank you for sharing and know you are not alone.

While I chose to leave the congregation, I really had no other choice. I was in a community where God was used as a tool to manipulate; where I was immensely overloaded and burned out, but told that the reason I was suffering was due to my selfishness, my refusal to pray more deeply (i often fell asleep praying...or when I sat anywhere for an extended period of time), and being unfaithful to my vows.

After I left,  I was diagnosed with PTSD. I have worked with two different therapists.  Neither was Catholic (or even religious) but both gave me valuable skills and perspective. 

I tell you this to really encourage you to find a therapist. Any therapist that is skilled in dealing with your issues will work.  Many have sliding scales if you don't have insurance, and can meet via skype or over the phone. There are even a few apps that offer therapy for a reduced rate for a while. Look at your budget, and make yourself a priority.

You will not regret the healing you can find. Will you still have pain or flashbacks or whatever?  Sure. But you will also have the tools to work through it. 

[gloriana35]

19 hours ago, Thomist said:

I was in a community where God was used as a tool to manipulate; where I was immensely overloaded and burned out, but told that the reason I was suffering was due to my selfishness

I greatly appreciate Thomist mentioning this. Many of us experienced similar situations. I frequently refrained from saying so, because I knew there were those on this forum who would insist they never saw such a thing, and don't relish being called a liar. I am by no means referring only what happened to me personally.

Some of the superiors in this category were not mentally ill or lacking in any conscience. They could have traits amplified by believing they were the voice of God, or that their abuse was 'good for your soul,' or that they were showing some heroic example. I spent years trying to 'do penance', because I'd been convinced I was proud and worldly (in many ways, I still am a total innocent about the world - and I have the scars to prove this - so how anyone could think me worldly would be a joke, were it not so damaging.) The worst superior in my own life was horrid to other Sisters - yet she would say outright "See how I am! That comes of a deep relationship with Christ!" She was constantly enraged, and, if she misunderstood, and someone tried to explain what really happened, she's sneer, "Well, that MIGHT have happened." I could understand her hating me - I didn't need to say so for her to realise I did not have the adulation for her that she expected. But there were simple, innocent Sisters, whom I cannot imagine offending anyone, whom she would have in tears.

[Antigonos]

While I fully recognize this is a forum for discerners, I too think it's important to recognize that not all "matches" between individuals and communities are "made in heaven."  IMO, the most important thing to remember is that there's no failure involved, to think of the experience of living in religious life as a learning experience, and to move on in one's spiritual quest.  Ultimately, it's one's relationship with God that matters, and there are an infinite number of pathways to tread, just as the theologies of Judaism and Catholicism are radically different, the goals are the same in the end.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Antigonos said:

While I fully recognize this is a forum for discerners, I too think it's important to recognize that not all "matches" between individuals and communities are "made in heaven."  IMO, the most important thing to remember is that there's no failure involved, to think of the experience of living in religious life as a learning experience, and to move on in one's spiritual quest.  Ultimately, it's one's relationship with God that matters, and there are an infinite number of pathways to tread, just as the theologies of Judaism and Catholicism are radically different, the goals are the same in the end.

In thought and in expression.........well said 

[underatree]

Leaving religious life was the hardest thing I have ever done, by far. 

My community had a number of significant problems, not least of which was that the novice mistress was highly controlling and manipulative. The wrong sort of expression on your face could lead to an hour’s scolding and questioning whether you were really in a state of grace and whether you had possibly committed some secret sin. She had/has serious anger/control issues and not having to deal with her is certainly one of the joys of secular life! 

I don’t have an interest in returning to my previous community (it’s been about five years since I left) but remain interested in religious life. I originally entered pretty young, swept up in all the vocations happytalk. Now I have a much better idea of what kind of spirituality/life/ministry fits me, and what kind of community I can live with. 

[Alycia]

Kim, check out my blog conventreform.wordpress.com I would LOVE to hear your story and even post it on the sight if you feel comfortable with that.

underatree, I just wrote about my novice mistress this morning on my blog! Please come over and share your experience! We have very similar stories! conventreform.wordpress.com

[Anastasia]

The experiences of former nuns and sisters are very important, both for those who is discerning and also for all believers. I read a bit of Alysia's blog (and will return to it). Those experiences are universal; one can have them being a member of a congregation and suffering emotional abuse from priests and sometimes fellow parishioners. I would say the more one wants to do things for the Church and Christ the more chances he has to experience abuse... It is quite sad.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Anastasia

[gloriana35]

Since it has been many years since anyone I knew personally was seeking to enter religious life, much of what I've seen on this forum has been intriguing. I've noticed, for example, that many young people know few, if any, religious - and perhaps made contact on an Internet site. Of course, even those who knew communities for years might find that the life inside the convent had elements one could not have known (I did not see horror stories - but one could get into trouble for doing what would not be considered wrong anywhere else... if vespers is at 4:45, to be there early is 'singularisation'), but it must be staggering to carry on correspondence with Sisters one may not even have met, schedule meetings, travel great distances, and the like.

I could relate some very sad stories of those who were rejected, and made decisions they regretted because it supposedly was 'God's will' for them to forget about consecrated life. Yet it is an eye-opener to see that even those who do not intend to continue pursuing religious life may have PTSD from recent, past experience in communities. 

[Anastasia]

16 hours ago, gloriana35 said:

Yet it is an eye-opener to see that even those who do not intend to continue pursuing religious life may have PTSD from recent, past experience in communities. 

In my experience, many who develop PTSD b.o. mistreatment in communities or congregations, have quite often suffered abuse in the past, in childhood and often in their own families and already fragile. Such people tend to endure in a new community more, unfortunately, because the instinct of self-preservation is impaired. They come to the Church being sure that it is a place of healing and tend to give a blind trust to anyone, clergy especially. Then the trauma is truly awful (I am speaking from my own experience) because it is a very powerful re-traumatisation done in the metaphysical context of the Sacraments. If in their families the victims had some hope for escape, in the Church setting the abuse is often perceived as "there is no escape, no hope".

There is much said online about the child sexual abuse but almost nothing - about non-sexual, emotional abuse of the adults in the Church. And any abuse (sexual, physical) always has emotional abuse as a component, in fact it is the very basis of any kind of abuse.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Anastasia

[allshallbewell]

I am in a very similar situation as the original poster and many others who have replied. I felt a call to the religious life since I was a teen, discerned, and entered a convent when I was 25. They traditionally sent postulants home for a 10 day vacation after the first year, and that's when I went home, only to never return. Though my time there was difficult, I had every intention of returning, because I truly believed it was my vocation. But having distance from the convent during my time at home made me see things more rationally and I asked for more time to discern, and kept postponing my return.. ultimately, I couldn't keep postponing/being wishy washy forever and finally made the decision to pull the plug 2 years after, without having ever returned. Even when I made that decision, I had no idea if I was making the right choice and cried my eyes out for a long time afterwards. It has now been 8 years since I left the convent. To this day I have lived every single day filled with longing, grief, and what could have been. I totally get what others are saying about PTSD. I definitely feel I had PTSD (and still do) from the experience. I feel pain when I see photos of the community and not belonging to the fold. No matter what I do out in the world, nothing fulfills me the way I felt when I lived the daily rhythms of the religious life, despite how hard it was.

My story takes a major twist. After I left the convent I returned to my job as a teacher, and my priest who I knew since I was a child hired me to work at his parish. He knew how much I'd struggled to make a decision regarding whether or not to return and knew what a vulnerable and painful time that was in my life. To make an extremely long story short, this priest ended up raping me (and it turned out I was one of many). I felt the world closing in on me and have worked through many cycles and stages of trauma, denial, anger, grief, etc, not just regarding what happened to me but it forced me to re-evaluate and re-think the entire foundation of my faith, the Catholic Church, and God himself. Several years have passed since that hellish time and the dust has settled, and although the trauma is with me every single day, I do not doubt God's presence in my life and that he brings good out of every situation. There is so much more that I can write and this is not even the tip of the iceberg, but despite all that has happened, I still feel called to the religious life. When I picture the rest of my life, I just see myself constantly wondering what could have been and feel I "missed my calling." It is very confusing. It is extremely hard to move on. I do not know how much of this is me continuing to look back and selectively remembering the beautiful aspects of the life, and how much is a true nudge from God. I am in my 30s now, and wonder if I should at least try contacting the convent again and begin again. At least if it doesn't work out the second time, I can have closure and move on. But then again, if it was truly God's will, I feel like he would have somehow brought me back by now. Any advice is much appreciated. 

[Sponsa-Christi]

@allshallbewellSince you asked, probably the first piece of advice would be to o whatever you have to do to find a good spiritual director in real life.

Also, one's thirties is really not too late to be discerning religious life. You might be above the age limit for some communities, but a lot of healthy communities would be willing to at least talk with you. 

[Hna.Caridad]

Dear allshallbewell,

First of all, I am so sorry that you've experienced such violence, manipulation, and abuse at the hands of those who are supposed to be spiritual leaders and guides.  None of it was your fault.  Let me repeat that:  NONE of what happened was your fault.

Before you begin discerning again and/or before (if) you begin dating, it's imperative that you seek out professional counseling/therapy to learn more about how it is that you ended up in these situations not once, but twice.  You deserve better and developing the skills of recognizing red flags and responding to them promptly will help to keep you safe.

I'm concerned for you and will be praying for you as you integrate the wounds/trauma of your past and learn new ways of being in relationship.