Impeach abortion

[MIKolbe]

10 hours ago, Anastasia (L&T) said:

Why does this sentiment feel so rare among pro-lifers?

Because through straw man arguments and vitriol there can be a willing inability to walk and chew gum at the same time....

[Lea]

On 3/12/2020 at 3:33 AM, Lilllabettt said:

Here's the reason. Because it's gross.

When someone says "black lives matter" only a turd responds "all lives matter." But isn't it true that 'all lives matter'? Yes. But now we are talking about black lives, so turds should shut it. 

There are SO many people under 30 trying to turn the prolife movement into an "all lives matter" movement. And its 100% lame. 

No, it's not. Actually, generalising the dignity of all lives is quite the opposite of whataboutism. All so often "pro-life"-activists only count in the lives they have in mind, which usually does not include the ones of refugees or people from different background. So reminding them about what's going in the mediterrean e.g. is reminding them of their very own claim. 

[Lilllabettt]

8 hours ago, Lea said:

No, it's not. Actually, generalising the dignity of all lives is quite the opposite of whataboutism. All so often "pro-life"-activists only count in the lives they have in mind, which usually does not include the ones of refugees or people from different background. So reminding them about what's going in the mediterrean e.g. is reminding them of their very own claim. 

Do you accept that responding to "black lives matter" with the words "all lives matter " is disgusting? Your answer impacts how I address this issue with you. 

Objectively it is disgusting because 99% of the time it's a dodge deployed by people who would rather not talk about racism.

Similarly when people criticize the prolife movement as not caring about refugees, women and so on, its because they want to distract from the oppression of fetal people. 99% of the time.  They dont want to talk about abortion because its ugly, an they themselves are dark and ugly. 

I would say most people in the prolife movement don't make claims about the equal dignity of all lives. And, they dont have to.  The term prolife is a marketing term, that's it. It doesn't mean pro all lives. It means pro fetal lives. The movement to free fetal people is not a catholic gutter right. People in the prolife movement have diverse beliefs about the death penalty, euthanasia, immigration, and so on. It's allowed. If we want the prolife movement to be "all lives matter" we need a different movement for fetal people and their rights. They deserve their own advocacy the same way every other oppressed group has their advocacy. 

Once again don't get it twisted. Refugees lives matter immigrants lives matter gun violence victims lives matter. One difference is all those groups have voices they can raise they have bodies they can lay down in the street. They have cnn town halls. Fetal people don't get cnn town halls Lea.

If you're not one who would answer "blm" with 'all lives matter', I'm going to need you to get real specific about why black folk immigrants women etc. advocating for their rights shouldn't be expected to share airtime stage space and spotlights with fetal people but the reverse is true. 

I'm going to need you to call the American heart association and ask them why they don't spend energy and resources fighting cerebral palsy. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Lilllabettt

[Lea]

10 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Do you accept that responding to "black lives matter" with the words "all lives matter " is disgusting? Your answer impacts how I address this issue with you. 

Objectively it is disgusting because 99% of the time it's a dodge deployed by people who would rather not talk about racism.

Similarly when people criticize the prolife movement as not caring about refugees, women and so on, its because they want to distract from the oppression of fetal people. 99% of the time.  They dont want to talk about abortion because its ugly, an they themselves are dark and ugly. 

I would say most people in the prolife movement don't make claims about the equal dignity of all lives. And, they dont have to.  The term prolife is a marketing term, that's it. It doesn't mean pro all lives. It means pro fetal lives. The movement to free fetal people is not a catholic gutter right. People in the prolife movement have diverse beliefs about the death penalty, euthanasia, immigration, and so on. It's allowed. If we want the prolife movement to be "all lives matter" we need a different movement for fetal people and their rights. They deserve their own advocacy the same way every other oppressed group has their advocacy. 

Once again don't get it twisted. Refugees lives matter immigrants lives matter gun violence victims lives matter. One difference is all those groups have voices they can raise they have bodies they can lay down in the street. They have cnn town halls. Fetal people don't get cnn town halls Lea.

If you're not one who would answer "blm" with 'all lives matter', I'm going to need you to get real specific about why black folk immigrants women etc. advocating for their rights shouldn't be expected to share airtime stage space and spotlights with fetal people but the reverse is true. 

I'm going to need you to call the American heart association and ask them why they don't spend energy and resources fighting cerebral palsy. 

I think you didn't get my point. It's not about not specifically advocating the blm matter movement when advocating fetal rights. 

The hypocrisy of at least the european "march for life" is that very often those people (e.g. the AfD in Germany) ACTIVELY work against the born lives of refugees or non-caucasian people altogether. I also strongly oppose the reintroduction of the death penalty into to German Grundgesetz (constitution) as some of their representatives want it. 

That's what I ment when writing "only the lives they have in mind". 

And no, I am not calling the Aha as I am not even an american citizen but strongly hope they care for every patient with a heart disease no matter their race, which means caring for every live affected in this "area". 

Can we agree on the Universal declaration on human rights? Imho it's one of the most beautiful documents humantiy has ever created. 

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, Lea said:

I think you didn't get my point. It's not about not specifically advocating the blm matter movement when advocating fetal rights. 

The hypocrisy of at least the european "march for life" is that very often those people (e.g. the AfD in Germany) ACTIVELY work against the born lives of refugees or non-caucasian people altogether. I also strongly oppose the reintroduction of the death penalty into to German Grundgesetz (constitution) as some of their representatives want it. 

That's what I ment when writing "only the lives they have in mind". 

And no, I am not calling the Aha as I am not even an american citizen but strongly hope they care for every patient with a heart disease no matter their race, which means caring for every live affected in this "area". 

Can we agree on the Universal declaration on human rights? Imho it's one of the most beautiful documents humantiy has ever created. 

 

You are against the reintroduction of the death penalty?  Great for you, me too. Others in the prolife movement are not. The movement for fetal rights is not exclusive to Catholics with our seamless garment ethics. The death penalty is an issue about which decent non believers may reasonably disagree.

"Prolife" is a marketing approach for the anti abortion movement. The same way anti war activists call themselves "peace activists". It's marketing. It doesnt mean they are for peace and nonviolence in every context. Peace activists may be vegans or they may be hunters. They may be pacifists or they may believe in self defense. In the 1960s the antiwar movement was made up of all kinds of people and that was part of its power. They were united on 1 thing: opposition to the war in Vietnam. 

I was an International affairs major, and I've studied the universal declaration in depth. It isn't beautiful. It's authors quote it to demand the right to dismember and burn alive an underclass of innocent human beings, then throw their mangled and disfigured bodies in the trash. The declaration is about as "beautiful" as the US Constitution, which was also written by people eager to use it to protect their right to murder and oppress. 

NB: unlike the death penalty or immigration or euthanasia the fact that fetal people are human and thus deserve basic human rights is not an issue on which decent people can disagree. It's a self evident truth. Denial of their human status is 100% the result of prejudice ignorance or bigotry. 

[Lea]

51 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

The death penalty is an issue about which decent non believers may reasonably disagree.

Quote

52 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

NB: unlike the death penalty or immigration or euthanasia the fact that fetal people are human and thus deserve basic human rights is not an issue on which decent people can disagree. It's a self evident truth. Denial of their human status is 100% the result of prejudice ignorance or bigotry. 

Well, I absolutely disagree on this. Neither euthanasia nor death penalty are something to disagree upon if someone claims the right to exist of all human life. 

 

[little2add]

There’s a dif between a innocent pre-born human and a blood thirsty, serial killer, serial rapest, pedophile adult human. 

 

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle,
be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil;
may God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God, cast into hell
Satan and all the evil spirits
who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.

 

[Lilllabettt]

5 hours ago, Lea said:

 

That may be, but the prolife movement doesn't claim 'the right to exist of all human life.'  Catholics might. The prolife movement is not just Catholics. 

[Lea]

11 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

That may be, but the prolife movement doesn't claim 'the right to exist of all human life.'  

It's fine to pick one topic to fight for, but fighting for one life and taking others is at least inconsequent. 

12 hours ago, little2add said:

There’s a dif between a innocent pre-born human and a blood thirsty, serial killer, serial rapest, pedophile adult human. 

There is a different indeed, yet not in their right to life. 

That's what I meant and what I consider hypocrisy. 

[little2add]

48 minutes ago, Lea said:

hypocrisy

 

[Lea]

@little2add Okay, call it dump, if you don't want to call it hypocrite. You happy now? 

[little2add]

5 hours ago, Lea said:

happy now? 

No, not at all. What does dump have to do with anything?

 

 

[Lea]

45 minutes ago, little2add said:

No, not at all. What does dump have to do with anything?

 

 

Oh, very funny. If there is no possibility for an ad-hominem argumentation, you decry the spelling of your opponent (who, in this case, is not even a native speaker). I'm very impressed.  

[little2add]

Okay???

[Lea]

38 minutes ago, little2add said:

Okay???

Oh, I was pretty sure you knew I meant "dumb" instead of dump. Sorry for that.