vianney Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 yah other then the fact that that is what the Catholic Church tells us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 (edited) ok...so does that make it a sin to believe the wrong thing?...is it dogmatic??? i dont know...maybe i am wrong on this one but i dont see God telling someone they cant get into heavan because the believed the wrong thing on whether or not animals had souls there obviously is a right and wrong answer to the question, my point is i dont know what it is... also, many years ago The Church taught that world was flat... Edited August 31, 2003 by TempleofVesarius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 me neither. One of the loveliest description of heaven is by CS Lewis in The GReat Divorce. In it he describes Saints being surrounded by all the animals they had loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysologus Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 also, many years ago The Church taught that world was flat... Nix, nix, the church never taught that. People thought that, but the church as the whole mystical Body of Christ never proclaimed it as a doctrine of the faith. There's a difference between what Catholics thought about various issues in various times, especially inherently scientific issues, and what the church has taught as a doctrine of the faith. Is it a sin to believe a lie? No. Is it a sin to tell a lie or to teach a lie? Yes, but if you don't realize it's a lie, then you aren't culpable and God isn't going to hold it against you. Follow your conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I don't think that animals have souls, at least not in the sense that we have souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempleofVesarius Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 (edited) excuse me...the church supported the popular thought that the earth was flat and how are we supposed to know if its a lie or not?...its just one of those things we are going to find out after we die and whatever it is we choose to accept doesnt hold much bearing on anything Edited September 1, 2003 by TempleofVesarius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 excuse me...the church supported the popular thought that the earth was flat and how are we supposed to know if its a lie or not?...its just one of those things we are going to find out after we die and whatever it is we choose to accept doesnt hold much bearing on anything THe Church never taught that. You must distinguish between actual teaching and somebody's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Excuse me. In the middle ages, most learned men in the Church believed, in accordance with Aristotle, that the earth was the center of the universe. In the 1500s, around the time of Copernicus and Galileo, there were prelates in the Church who supported the heliocentric position, and others who supported the geocentric position. An ecclesiastic tribunal condemned Galileo's opinion, but the Church as a whole moved on and just accepted heliocentrism. In the early Church, there were people who questioned the idea of the antipodes. The idea was that there were people who lived on the other side of the earth, who stood up downwards, trees grew downwards, and objects fell upwards. This showed that some churchmen had conceptual difficulties with the full implications of a round earth. But I am not aware of anyone in the Church who ever questioned the idea that the earth is round, which had been proven by Greek philosophers hundreds of years before the Church even came into existence. The Church certainly never taught, dogmatically, that the earth is flat, and it never even supported this position. Geospherism (pardon the neologism) has always been accepted in the Church as far as I know. If you have proof to the contrary, please bring it forward. Now, the matter of plants and animals having souls. I am suggesting that you do not look for dogmatic definitions, conciliar decrees, catechetical statements, because really all that is unnecessary. In the papal encyclical Aeterni Patris Pope Pius X declared Thomism, the philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas, to be more or less the philosophy of the Church. Thomism, incidentally, can answer your question about whether plants and animals have souls. Basically, yes. Plants and animals have souls. A soul is the principle of life in a living organism. But these souls are not immortal, because they are not rational. Plants have souls which are called vegetative souls, and which give them the powers of growth, nutrition, and reproduction. Animals have souls which are called sensitive souls, which give them the powers of sense-knowledge, memory, imagination, appetite, and motion as well. But all of these powers depend on the physical structure of the organism for their being and activity, and hence there is nothing which survives after death. Human beings have rational souls, which give them the powers of reason (thinking) and free-will (choosing) above all, and since these powers do not depend on the physical organism for their activity they can survive after death. There is a really good website (www.aquinasonline.com) which explains all this in depth. Look at the Topics section, especially at "Body and Soul" and "Psychic Powers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 It was not an infallible teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdewolf2 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Just answer me this. We all know the Church never infallibly taught that the earth is flat. But just give one example of any father or doctor of the Church whatever holding that the earth is flat. I just find it incredible to believe that anyone in the Church, except maybe uneducated laymen, would think that the earth is flat, given that Greek philosophers successfully proved the rotundity of the earth centuries before Christ. I know of doctors, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, holding that the earth is the center of the universe, and this opinion was common in the middle ages. But no one, absolutely no one, thought the earth was flat. I've heard that some early Christians had a problem with the concept of people living on the other side of the earth, which showed they had a problem understanding the full implications of a round earth, but I am not aware of anyone challenging the basic concept that the earth, after all, is round. I just want to know who the heck it was that supposedly thought the earth was flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Actually it is taught in history classes that Columbus's sailors were afraid to fall off the end of the earrth cause it was flat. No sailor could be that stupid.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Actually it is taught in history classes that Columbus's sailors were afraid to fall off the end of the earrth cause it was flat. No sailor could be that stupid.! Well, people didn't have all types of technology to figure out that the earth is round, give them a break!! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Humans have body, soul, and spirit. animals (and I guess plants) have body and soul. Although, the souls of animals and plants are not the same as human souls (immortal). That's what mama always said, anyway... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Well, people didn't have all types of technology to figure out that the earth is round, give them a break!! Actually you don't need technology , all you need to do is go to sea and see. Remember the ancient greeks thousands of years ago new the earth was round and came very close to figuring out its circumfrence. Is just one of those myths like washington chopped down a cherry tree. Its also a form of chronological snobbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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