Sisters of Maria Stella Matutina

[StellaMaris]

(Mary Morning Star)

They are a contemplative but not cloistered community that as far as I can tell lead a very beautiful life.

The only thing that keeps bugging me is their origin story. Does anyone know anything more about this? I'm in the beginning stages of discernment and I spoke about this with the prioress when I visited their convent and she was very open, understanding and kind and explained that they wanted to live their life as it was intended by the founder of their original community but that that wasn't possible anymore due to reforms (they went though a very difficult time, I still do not fully grasp why). When I read acticles on the internet I see very conflicting statements and that gives me a feeling of unease.

There seems to have been a nasty split in the community of the contemplative sisters of st. John which caused hunderds of novices and simple professed sisters to leave and form a new community (Sisters of st. John and st. Dominic). This community was actually surpressed by the Holy See, but later they were obviously allowed to a new community (Hermanas de Maria Stella Matutina).

The founder of the community of st. John, Father Marie-Dominique Phillipe, is accused of not keeping his vow of chastity as well as Sr Alix Parmentie, the sister who cofounded the contemplative branch of the community. 

I read articles written by former nuns, who say it was like living in a 'catholic cult'. That Sister Alix and four other sisters were power hungry and not suited to be in charge and that the new community is no different. This scares me. I've visited their convent before and read some works of Fr. Phillipe. He seems like a very holy, wonderful man and the community clearly still sees him as an inspiration as they read his works etc. I also believe Sr. Alix is still considered a holy woman within the community, but I am not sure of this.

I really don't know what to do with this, and hope someone can give me some clarity... I don't want to fall in love with a community, only to discover that well... I don't really know. I think it's a bit to late for me to have a completely unbiased view, hence my posting here, in the hope that some of you might know a bit more as you all seem to know quite a bit about different communities and congregations.

 

In Christ,

StellaMaris

[Sponsa-Christi]

I don't know the new community personally, but I've spent a lot of time with the Brothers and Sisters of St. John. I wasn't discerning with them, and I never entered the community, so I don't have any insider knowledge.

But, based on the time I have spent with them, for the most part they seemed like healthy, well-rounded people. I've never gotten any weird vibes from them (which, trust me, is saying a lot!) 

Their expression of religious life is rather intense and fairly traditional, in the sense that they observe a lot of monastic practices, like times of silence, a very full habit, chanting the office, living largely off donated food in some houses, etc. So, for sure it's not for everybody! But the Brothers and Sisters of St. John that I've known always seemed to live these traditional practices out in a genuinely joyful and balanced way. For what it's worth, their lived example has been a major formative influence in my own consecrated life as a consecrated virgin, in terms of seeing how a consecrated person can live a radical way of life yet still be "normal" and approachable.  

I was also impressed by how they did zero vocational "recruiting," at least from what I saw. Their whole attitude is that if someone was meant to join their community, the Holy Spirit would do the calling. 

So, to make a long story short, I wouldn't be afraid of the St. John connection at all. 

[Lilllabettt]

12 hours ago, StellaMaris said:

(Mary Morning Star)

They are a contemplative but not cloistered community that as far as I can tell lead a very beautiful life.

The only thing that keeps bugging me is their origin story. Does anyone know anything more about this? I'm in the beginning stages of discernment and I spoke about this with the prioress when I visited their convent and she was very open, understanding and kind and explained that they wanted to live their life as it was intended by the founder of their original community but that that wasn't possible anymore due to reforms (they went though a very difficult time, I still do not fully grasp why). When I read acticles on the internet I see very conflicting statements and that gives me a feeling of unease.

There seems to have been a nasty split in the community of the contemplative sisters of st. John which caused hunderds of novices and simple professed sisters to leave and form a new community (Sisters of st. John and st. Dominic). This community was actually surpressed by the Holy See, but later they were obviously allowed to a new community (Hermanas de Maria Stella Matutina).

The founder of the community of st. John, Father Marie-Dominique Phillipe, is accused of not keeping his vow of chastity as well as Sr Alix Parmentie, the sister who cofounded the contemplative branch of the community. 

I read articles written by former nuns, who say it was like living in a 'catholic cult'. That Sister Alix and four other sisters were power hungry and not suited to be in charge and that the new community is no different. This scares me. I've visited their convent before and read some works of Fr. Phillipe. He seems like a very holy, wonderful man and the community clearly still sees him as an inspiration as they read his works etc. I also believe Sr. Alix is still considered a holy woman within the community, but I am not sure of this.

I really don't know what to do with this, and hope someone can give me some clarity... I don't want to fall in love with a community, only to discover that well... I don't really know. I think it's a bit to late for me to have a completely unbiased view, hence my posting here, in the hope that some of you might know a bit more as you all seem to know quite a bit about different communities and congregations.

 

In Christ,

StellaMaris

So ....

Ask specifically what reforms they needed to reject to make living their life possible. 

I believe the Community of St John has publicly acknowledge that their founder committed sexual sins against sisters in the community. This is the community Pope Francis was referring to when he spoke of "sexual slavery" committed by priests against nuns. That comment I believe referred to sexual relationship(s ) the founder had with sisters to whom he was spiritual director - whether he was their confessor as well I don't know. But the seriousness of that crime goes all the way up to excommunication (if, for example, he absolved the sisters in confession of sins he committed with them). Obviously, even as a mere spiritual director, engaging in sexual sin with a directee would be a grave abuse of power. 

In some religious communities with a traditional mindset, it is expected that spiritual direction will be given within the community, and outside direction is frowned upon.  In the religious community I was in, the novices were given monthly meetings, called "direction," with our superior, the novice mistress, where we talked about our spiritual lives and received guidance in living religious life. 

This was is not a "kosher" practice (I understand they have since stopped it.) It presents at least the chance of producing inadvertently, a violation of "internal forum". Meaning, for example, you feel an expectation to divulge internal forum matters of conscience to someone, who, in the external forum, is doing things like assigning your duties or saying whether you should continue in formation, etc.  As a 21 yr old novice I simply had no clue this was unacceptable and truly believed God would not want me to "hold back" anything from a spiritual director. So, it was a situation ripe for abuse. [To be clear, I was not sexually abused in any way shape or form in religious life.]

My point in relating the above is that how a community handles spiritual direction, confession, psychotherapy/mental health needs, obedience and so on, is very important. Although religious may be striving for holiness, they are flesh not angels,  and so structures and norms must be put in place to make abuse difficult to accomplish from a practical standpoint. What structures does this new community have in place? Do they have a philosophy re "outside" inspection?

The Legion has had to reckon with the sins of their founder as well, although with the community of st john their founder is not accused of a full double life or of abusing minors. So it may be more possible for them to move beyond it. But my question would be, how do they acknowledge their founders sins while wanting to live in accordance with the norms and values he established.... and specifically what reforms made living that way impossible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HollyDolly]

I had heard of this on Catholic websites, but don't  know anything beyond what i have read. The thing with their founder sounds like something out of Boccacio's Decameron.The book can be gotten from the library.Very interesting reading about life in the 13th to 15th century, .I think he wrote it in the 1300s. I know Maria Monk and her book Awful Disclosures was brandied a fraud, as she had never been a nun in Montreal , but had been the imate of a house run by nuns for girls and women. And there have been other such books written by Edith O'Gorman and other women etc. So when you read these stories like with the Community of St.John, you wonder if  despite Maria Monk being considered a  fraud, that maybe there was indeed a grain of truth to what she and others wrote ages ago.

As far as the reforms go, were they imposed by new leadership, or was it by the Holy See?

[Dymphna]

Actually, I happened to read about the community of St. John a few weeks ago - they just had a General Chapter in which they dealt with the serious abuses committed by Fr Philippe and other members. Their final message can be found here: https://brothers-saint-john.org/2019/11/06/final-message/

It says that "Fr. Philippe can not be a role model" for a life according to the Holy Spirit and that "the Brothers will no longer refer to him as a norm".

The whole text is worth reading, in my opinion. Sounds like they are completely distancing themselves from Fr. Philippe and ready to impose also the necessary organisational changes.

[Nunsuch]

2 hours ago, HollyDolly said:

I had heard of this on Catholic websites, but don't  know anything beyond what i have read. The thing with their founder sounds like something out of Boccacio's Decameron.The book can be gotten from the library.Very interesting reading about life in the 13th to 15th century, .I think he wrote it in the 1300s. I know Maria Monk and her book Awful Disclosures was brandied a fraud, as she had never been a nun in Montreal , but had been the imate of a house run by nuns for girls and women. And there have been other such books written by Edith O'Gorman and other women etc. So when you read these stories like with the Community of St.John, you wonder if  despite Maria Monk being considered a  fraud, that maybe there was indeed a grain of truth to what she and others wrote ages ago.

I am a historian of religious life, and these anti-Catholic books were total frauds. Please don't suggest that they had any credibility. There are plenty of secondary sources you can read which definitively prove this. Just... NO.

[StellaMaris]

3 hours ago, Dymphna said:

Actually, I happened to read about the community of St. John a few weeks ago - they just had a General Chapter in which they dealt with the serious abuses committed by Fr Philippe and other members. Their final message can be found here: https://brothers-saint-john.org/2019/11/06/final-message/

It says that "Fr. Philippe can not be a role model" for a life according to the Holy Spirit and that "the Brothers will no longer refer to him as a norm".

The whole text is worth reading, in my opinion. Sounds like they are completely distancing themselves from Fr. Philippe and ready to impose also the necessary organisational changes.

Thank you for this! I hadn't come across the full text yet! 

It's hard for me to read, as I feel like I'm between two sides. I don't know who or what to believe, and there a no sources that are completely objective. I've heard that the testimonies they speak of are not at all reliable, but there is no way to find out. I don't want to make a choice like seriously discerning with a community that ends up being 'in the wrong' so to speak. I've met people who have met Fr. Philippe, and they have nothing but good things to say about him and his books are truly inspiring and helped me in my search for truth.

A big part of the sisters life is that the have ongoing formation in for example philosophy, but if I understand correctly the bishop says that not good or am I mistaken? I'm a bit shaken up by all of this...

I'm very much confused and don't know what to think or who to believe. Please pray for me.

[GraceUk]

If all this is worrying you and causing such turmoil then would it not be better to look at other communities who do not have all this historical trouble in their background. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, StellaMaris said:

. Please pray for me.

[StellaMaris]

1 hour ago, GraceUk said:

If all this is worrying you and causing such turmoil then would it not be better to look at other communities who do not have all this historical trouble in their background. 

I wish I was that simple. I feel like I'm already too far in, by lack of better terminology. I never thought I would be suited for contemplative life... until I met this community. I guess my life is just a big questionmark at the moment. 

If I would have known this beforehand, things would perhaps have gone very differently. The thing is, I've met the community now and they are absolutely wonderful. I love them very much. I only found out about the history behind them after an intensive google search. (Because let's be honest, who doesn't do that from time to time.) At that point I had already been in contact with them. In a vocational discernment group on facebook, another young lady spoke very negative about the sisters, which caused me to 'research' them a bit more (read: intensive google stalking and looking up old posts on phatmass) and led me to all this. 

[andibc]

Confusion is never a good sign. Ask God to give you peace if it is his will that you discern with this order and then put it in the Blessed Mother’s hands by saying a nine day novena to her. At the end of the novena, if you still feel any confusion or discomfort, put the idea aside and discern elsewhere. if you have a strong sense of peace and no concerns, go ahead and discern with them. There is no need to keep digging around for more information.  It really is as simple as that. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by andibc

[Dymphna]

17 hours ago, StellaMaris said:

A big part of the sisters life is that the have ongoing formation in for example philosophy, but if I understand correctly the bishop says that not good or am I mistaken?

The letter of the bishop (published in the same place as the final document to which I was refering before) doesn't say at all that formation in philosophy is not good. It does say, though, that formation in a religious community cannot be based primarily on philosophy, and that careful discernment is needed regarding the philosophical teaching of Fr. Philippe.

This seems to touch on two subjects: First, formation should be about human formation and about biblical and other theological subjects as well as philosophy. This is, as far as I know, standard in religious communities, but seems to have been somewhat neglected by the brothers up to now. Second, Fr. Philippe may well have written impressive books, but he also was a systematic abuser who first ignored Vatican sanctions as early as 1957 and went on commiting crimes and covering up crimes of others for decades. Was he a "split personality" who wrote good things, but acted completely against them - or are there elements in his writing/teaching which make systematic abuse easier, eg. by encouraging an authoritarian struture? (just an example, I don't know his writing.) This danger needs to be adressed, and therefore his writings need discernment.

I myself am a bit of a fan of the community of l'Arche, founded by Jean Vanier, who got a lot of spiritual advice by the brother of Fr. Marie-Dominique Philippe, Fr. Thomas Philippe. I was shocked when I learned that Fr. Thomas, similar to his brother, had systematically abused women in l'Arche over many years, so I can sympathise a bit with you. I'd just talk openly with the sisters of this community about the horrible crimes of Fr. Philippe and see how they react - if they still defend him now I'd run quickly, to be honest.

[Orans]

On 11/25/2019 at 7:51 PM, StellaMaris said:

(Mary Morning Star)

They are a contemplative but not cloistered community that as far as I can tell lead a very beautiful life.

The only thing that keeps bugging me is their origin story. Does anyone know anything more about this? I'm in the beginning stages of discernment and I spoke about this with the prioress when I visited their convent and she was very open, understanding and kind and explained that they wanted to live their life as it was intended by the founder of their original community but that that wasn't possible anymore due to reforms (they went though a very difficult time, I still do not fully grasp why). When I read acticles on the internet I see very conflicting statements and that gives me a feeling of unease.

There seems to have been a nasty split in the community of the contemplative sisters of st. John which caused hunderds of novices and simple professed sisters to leave and form a new community (Sisters of st. John and st. Dominic). This community was actually surpressed by the Holy See, but later they were obviously allowed to a new community (Hermanas de Maria Stella Matutina).

The founder of the community of st. John, Father Marie-Dominique Phillipe, is accused of not keeping his vow of chastity as well as Sr Alix Parmentie, the sister who cofounded the contemplative branch of the community. 

I read articles written by former nuns, who say it was like living in a 'catholic cult'. That Sister Alix and four other sisters were power hungry and not suited to be in charge and that the new community is no different. This scares me. I've visited their convent before and read some works of Fr. Phillipe. He seems like a very holy, wonderful man and the community clearly still sees him as an inspiration as they read his works etc. I also believe Sr. Alix is still considered a holy woman within the community, but I am not sure of this.

I really don't know what to do with this, and hope someone can give me some clarity... I don't want to fall in love with a community, only to discover that well... I don't really know. I think it's a bit to late for me to have a completely unbiased view, hence my posting here, in the hope that some of you might know a bit more as you all seem to know quite a bit about different communities and congregations.

 

In Christ,

StellaMaris

Hello Stella Maris,

I've been in the phorum for many years and I remember there were several threads on the happenings that led to the foundation of the Hermanas de Maria Stella Matutina in the Diocese of San Sebastián, in Spain, by its current bishop, Monseñor Don José Ignacio Munilla, who is a good and faithful bishop, very supportive of priestly, religious & consecrated life.

Whatever the problems that happened with the contemplative Sisters of the Community of St. Jean, it was never very clear to the outside world. The fact is that there was an intervention from Rome forcing changes that a majority of the younger Sisters were not ready to embrace because it meant -to them- a change in the charism and life that had attracted them. Some two hundred young Sisters left the contemplative Community of St John.

A small group of them, months later, started to live in community with the blessing and permission of the Bishop of Cordoba, Spain -Contemplatives of St. John and St Dominic-, but within just a few months or weeks of this, out of the blue they were suppressed with an order from Cardinal Bertone, SECRETARY OF STATE at the Vatican, not Secretary for the Congregation for Religious... All very strange. In the suppression, he also forbid that they would NEVER IN THE FUTURE attempt to create a community. ... this is even MORE strange, trying to control their future for ever.

There is this old thread on this: 

 

and this:

ANYWAY: 

This thing of problems and splits at the beginning of religious Orders in the Church goes back hundred of years and hundreds of times. It is almost a "given". You can read history and it happened and continues to happen.

The Sisters of Mary Morning Star are currently a legit and well appreciated religious community. I think this is what matters.

Monseñor Munilla accompanied them after their suppression in Cordoba and made available for them a huge empty monastery in his diocese of San Sebastián: in Bergara. The suppressed young women lived there for a number of months, less than two years, and dozens of their former companions joined them there -they didn't wear a habit at this point. This is now their mother house.

On June 25, 2014 Bishop Munilla established them as a Public Association of the Faithful with a decree and a Mass of Thanksgiving with about 250 Sisters, and the presence at the mass of Cardinal Braz de Avis, who at the time was the Prefect for the Congregation for Religious in Rome. 

So they couldn't get a better new start (after having been forbidden to EVER start again by a cardinal who had nothing to do with religious life in the Church).

I know the Sisters in San Sebastián. They are very well loved. 

Now, if you are interested in their charism and life, it might be time for you to forget about the shadows of the past and jump forward into responding to your calling centered on their present reality and your communication and experience with this Community. It might be a temptation for you to get involved in what you may never figure out: what happened in the past. You say that the Prioress you talked to was open to bring up whatever you raised. That's important. 

As for the founder of the St John family, Fr Marie Dominique Philippe OP, you need to clear your reservations with the Prioress and the Stella Matutina Sisters. Besides that you may also need to let go and jump into the future with as much trust as you can, because that  is what religious life is about after all. There is never any guaranty that people are not going to make big mistakes -we are ALL sinners, and this includes me and you-.

Hope this helps you a little at this point, at least to take your next step -personally-: are you going to continue your vocational discernment with these Sisters or do you need to move on to some place else where you will have greater freedom to be serious about YOUR issues and not those of the community's past.

I will pray for guidance and clarity for you in your discernment. Please pray for me as well. Thank you!

[StellaMaris]

1 hour ago, Orans said:

I will pray for guidance and clarity for you in your discernment. Please pray for me as well. Thank you!

Thank you very much for your post! You make some very good points and gives me a lot to think and pray about. (I did not quote all of it, as that would be a bit redundant as it can be read just above )

I will most definitely pray for you too! God bless! 

[GraceUk]

I did a bit of reading on this order as I've not heard of them before. It seems they are flourishing and have a convent in the UK and everyone seems to speak highly of them and their work. In your position if I was still worried I would ask the priest at my church for his thoughts. Kind of like a person outside of the order itself.