Francis Church Is 666? Or Nah?

[Guest]

This is what people are saying and getting at? What exactly does this mean?

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

Isn't this a continuation of your other thread? Cool song though.

[Guest]

Very cool song. God Bless Akalyte.

And no this thread is where you and others put your case forward (if that's your stance) that 'Francis Church' is 666 and what I should do. And this is definitely the opinion of some in Catholic Media because I've read it. So should I find a Trad Parish asap? An sspx church? What does it mean exactly that 'Francis Church' is apostate? What are the consequences of those (like myself) who remain in Parishes that recognize him as Pope?

Edited November 3, 2019 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

Well I'm not sure what all you've seen. What I've seen that you've posted from Twitter is oversimplified, even twisting of the original statements. 

I believe that Pope Francis is the Pope. I also believe he is a bad and even wicked Pope. This is based upon his failure to fight against the abuse of children, namely young teenage boys. His rehabilitation of "Uncle Ted" and other promotions of those who've committed abuse or greatly protected abusers. Condemning witnesses who spoke out against abusers.

Continuously going to a reporter who reports the Pope has denied Hell, that Christ on Earth was not God, denying the immortal soul, etc etc.  The idolarty in the Vatican of late is just the latest scandal. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by KnightofChrist

[Guest]

 

4 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

What I've seen that you've posted from Twitter is oversimplified, even twisting of the original statements. 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

Regina Magazine has various posts from the very recent to the first of October naming Pope Francis, Pope or Francis or Pope Francis. 

A Post-Christian Pope is what normies will think of a Pope who allows, approves, and attends idol pagan worship ceremonies. 

Christ is the only way to Salvation, not obedience and loyalty. 

[Peace]

11 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

I believe that Pope Francis is the Pope. I also believe he is a bad and even wicked Pope. This is based upon his failure to fight against the abuse of children, namely young teenage boys. His rehabilitation of "Uncle Ted" and other promotions of those who've committed abuse or greatly protected abusers. Condemning witnesses who spoke out against abusers.

I think this is a fair criticism. Would you also call Pius 12, John 23, Paul 6, JP 2, and Benedict bad popes as well? If Francis is on the hook I think we have to put all of these men on the hook too, and call them bad and even wicked Popes too, if we are to be consistent.

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

I think this is a fair criticism. Would you also call Pius 12, John 23, Paul 6, JP 2, and Benedict bad popes as well? If Francis is on the hook I think we have to put all of these men on the hook too, and call them bad and even wicked Popes too, if we are to be consistent.

Yes, I would call them bad popes. Francis however has gone far further than previous popes failures. Prior popes were bad, Francis actions have been evil, even wicked. Mccarrick is just one prime example. He was a known abuser that Benedict forced into a private prayer life. Francis brought him back into public ministry, made him bishop maker in the US. He raped young boys for years. 

Here are some examples

Source: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/six-cases-where-the-sexual-abuse-scandal-touches-pope-francis

-----

1. The Fr. Inzoli case: Shocking papal intervention on behalf of a sexual predator

Earlier this month, Michael Brendan Dougherty reported the troubling case of Fr. Mauro Inzoli, who was accused of molesting children, including in the confessional.  In 2012, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) found him guilty and defrocked him. Yet, shockingly, Inzoli won a reprieve from Pope Francis. According to Dougherty, the Pope’s close collaborators, Cardinal Coccopalmerio and Monsignor Pio Vito Pinto, now dean of the Roman Rota, both intervened on behalf of Fr. Inzoli. Pope Francis reversed the action of the CDF and returned Inzoli to the priestly state in 2014, inviting him to "a life of humility and prayer." Coccopalmerio is a trusted confidante of Francis. However, the flashy “Don Mercedes,” as Fr. Inzoli was known, did not follow these admonishments. Dougherty reports, “In January 2015, Don Mercedes participated in a conference on the family in Lombardy.” This past summer, civil authorities concluded the trial of Inzoli, convicting him of eight offenses, while another 15 charges were beyond the statute of limitations. Inzoli was sentenced to 4 years and 9 months by the Italian Court.

 

2. The sex abuse victims of the Argentina/Italy Provolo Institute for Deaf and Mute

In December 2013, a group of deaf and mute students from the Italian Provolo Institute in Verona who were sex abuse victims of Fr. Nicola Corradi wrote directly to Pope Francis notifying him that Corradi had sexually abused them and informed the Pope that Fr. Corradi was still in ministry with deaf and mute children in Francis' native Argentina.  The letter to Pope Francis details the heartbreakingly brutal treatment of abuse victims by the Vatican: We are a group of former students of the Antonio Provolo Institute for the Deaf and Dumb of Verona (Italy) who told the press about the abuses committed by paedophile priests at the Institute. This was done only after three years of fruitless contacts with the Curia of Verona and in order to prevent what happened to us from happening to other children. The Bishop of Verona, who had been aware of what was going on, immediately accused us of being slanderers. On May 9, 2014, the eight Provolo victims of Italy sent Pope Francis a video message pleading for justice. They asked the Pope for safety measures to protect children. After repeated pleas and requests to the Vatican, in February 2016, the Vatican informed the victims that the Pope had referred the matter to the Italian Bishops’ Conference, refusing their request for an independent investigation. For three years, Fr. Corradi remained at the school, after Pope Francis was informed that an active child predator priest was teaching deaf and mute children in Argentina. In late November 2016, Argentine Police arrested the 82-year old Rev. Corradi, 55-year-old priest Horacio Corbacho, and three other men. They are accused of sexual and physical child abuse at the Antonio Provolo Institute in northwestern Mendoza province in Argentina. When the police raided the school in Argentina’s Mendoza province, they found pornography and about $34,000 in Fr. Corradi’s room. Now at least 60 students of the Provolo Institute in Argentina have come forward seeking justice for the abuse they say they suffered at the hands of the accused men. Read about the school of horrors here.

 

3. Belgian Cardinal Danneels In 2010, Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels was caught on tape attempting to cover up years of abuse involving his close friend and fellow bishop, Roger Vangheluwe, then-Bishop of Bruges.

The victim on the 2010 tape was Bishop Vangheluwe’s nephew. In a meeting, which was secretly recorded, Cardinal Danneels directed the abuse victim to remain silent about the abuse, while telling him to “ask for forgiveness” and “acknowledge your own guilt.” When the tape was leaked shortly after the meeting, Bishop Vangheluwe admitted to the sexual abuse of his nephew and stepped down from his post. While Pope Francis has repeatedly assured Catholics that bishops who cover up abuse will be removed from office, Danneels was instead rewarded. In addition to having Cardinal Danneels accompany him on his initial presentation to Catholics on the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica, Pope Francis ignored the outcry as he made Danneels one of his personal appointments to both the first and second Synod on the Family.

 

4. Honduran Cardinal Maradiaga Shortly after his election as Pope, Francis named Honduran Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga as the head of the C9, the newly created Papal Cabinet of Cardinals.

As head of the C9, Maradiaga is sometimes dubbed the “vice pope.” Yet, there are questions about how seriously Maradiaga takes the sex abuse crisis. He came under withering attack in 2002 for an interview he did with the Italian Catholic publication 30 Giorni. Maradiaga claimed that Jews influenced the Boston Globe to exploit the controversy regarding sexual abuse by Catholic priests in order to divert attention from the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. The "fury" with which the press reported the scandal, Maradiaga said, "reminds me of the times of Diocletian and Nero and, more recently, Stalin and Hitler." "It certainly makes me think that in a moment in which all the attention of the mass media was focused on the Middle East, all the many injustices done against the Palestinian people, the print media and the TV in the United States became obsessed with sexual scandals that happened 40 years ago, 30 years ago.” Advertisement Cardinal Maradiaga also expressed his allegiance to priests over victims: ''For me it would be a tragedy to reduce the role of a pastor to that of a cop. We are totally different, and I'd be prepared to go to jail rather than harm one of my priests.''

5. Chilean Cardinal Errazuriz After the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith found Chilean priest-predator Fr. Karadima guilty of sexual abuse of minors, Pope Francis appointed Karadima’s bishop, Chilean Cardinal Errázuriz, to his powerful Council of Cardinals (C9).

Cardinal Errazuriz first was informed of abuse by Fr. Karadima by a young male victim/parishioner who assumed an investigation would be opened.  According to the New York Times, “The cardinal sent back a note, saying he was praying for Mr. Murillo, but failed to open a preliminary investigation. He chose not to do so, the cardinal said in an e-mailed response, because ‘unfortunately, I judged that the accusations were not credible at the time.’” The Karadima appeals judge criticized Cardinal Errázuriz for not acting on the Karadima allegations for years, and protecting a sexual predator of children. The Karadima abuse victims were enraged over Errázuriz’s appointment to the Council of Cardinals. "Why would Pope Francis, who's trying to clean up the church, pick a man like Errázuriz who has done so much harm to so many, by his actions?" asked victim Juan Carlos Cruz. "Errázuriz said he did not believe us, and minimized sex abuse cases.”

 

6. Chilean Bishop Barros In March 2015, Pope Francis appointed Bishop Juan Barros to lead the Diocese of Osorno, Chile.  

The Fr. Karadima sex abuse victims and Osorno Catholics were furious over this papal selection because of Bishop Barros’ long association with Fr. Karadima. The priest-predator was in fact a longtime mentor to Barros. Over 1,300 Catholics in Osorno, along with 30 diocesan priests, and 120 members of the Chilean Parliament sent a letter to Pope Francis urging him to rescind the appointment of Bishop Barros which was scheduled for March 21, 2015. The bishops of Chile supported Barros against the accusers and the Vatican rejected the accusations. In May 2015, Pope Francis was filmed criticizing Chilean Catholics who protested Barros’ appointment. Francis called them “stupid” for believing the allegations against Barros. The accusations were very severe including two former seminarians claiming that Barros was in the room when they were abused by Karadima. Worldwide media coverage reported that thousands of Catholics, dressed in black, stormed the Cathedral of San Mateo during Barros’ installation ceremony.

[cruciatacara]

Quote

 

Yes, I would call them bad popes. Francis however has gone far further than previous popes failures. Prior popes were bad, Francis actions have been evil, even wicked. Mccarrick is just one prime example. He was a known abuser that Benedict forced into a private prayer life. Francis brought him back into public ministry, made him bishop maker in the US. He raped young boys for years. 

 

From the post above, it appears that it is now ok on Phatmass to criticize the Pope and call him evil? What is this site becoming? 

[Lilllabettt]

10 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

From the post above, it appears that it is now ok on Phatmass to criticize the Pope and call him evil? What is this site becoming? 

Do you have any response to the accusations of what he has done? Inzoli etc?  Looking up that case, it is very bad. 

[cruciatacara]

22 minutes ago, Lilllabettt said:

Do you have any response to the accusations of what he has done? Inzoli etc?  Looking up that case, it is very bad. 

Do you have an answer to my question about criticizing the Pope on this forum? I always thought that support for the Holy Father was expected here but if the rules have changed, then I would like to know.

[Lilllabettt]

2 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Do you have an answer to my question about criticizing the Pope on this forum? I always thought that support for the Holy Father was expected here but if the rules have changed, then I would like to know.

Well there was a time it was forbidden.  But, I think the days where Catholics do not question the clergy are over. I personally did not criticize the Pope in public for a long time.  Calling him evil or wicked is perhaps over the line.  That could be said of JP2 as well, and he is a saint.  But if the things Knight says are true, and it seems with Inzoli at least something horrible happened... then he should be criticized, severely, and in public, until he repents, in public. 

[KnightofChrist]

What does a Pope have to do for the faithful to justly call him wicked? Francis' actions and inactions in response to the abuse crisis have been wicked, weak, or worthless. 

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

What does a Pope have to do for the faithful to justly call him wicked? Francis' actions and inactions in response to the abuse crisis have been wicked, weak, or worthless. 

Well, I think it has to be deliberately bad. JP2 promoted Maciel and hes a canonized saint. He also did things like kissing the Quran. He did a lot that was bad, and just very bad judgment at a minimum . 

[Peace]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:36 PM, KnightofChrist said:

Yes, I would call them bad popes. Francis however has gone far further than previous popes failures. Prior popes were bad, Francis actions have been evil, even wicked. Mccarrick is just one prime example. He was a known abuser that Benedict forced into a private prayer life. Francis brought him back into public ministry, made him bishop maker in the US. He raped young boys for years. 

Here are some examples

Source: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/six-cases-where-the-sexual-abuse-scandal-touches-pope-francis

-----

1. The Fr. Inzoli case: Shocking papal intervention on behalf of a sexual predator

Earlier this month, Michael Brendan Dougherty reported the troubling case of Fr. Mauro Inzoli, who was accused of molesting children, including in the confessional.  In 2012, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) found him guilty and defrocked him. Yet, shockingly, Inzoli won a reprieve from Pope Francis. According to Dougherty, the Pope’s close collaborators, Cardinal Coccopalmerio and Monsignor Pio Vito Pinto, now dean of the Roman Rota, both intervened on behalf of Fr. Inzoli. Pope Francis reversed the action of the CDF and returned Inzoli to the priestly state in 2014, inviting him to "a life of humility and prayer." Coccopalmerio is a trusted confidante of Francis. However, the flashy “Don Mercedes,” as Fr. Inzoli was known, did not follow these admonishments. Dougherty reports, “In January 2015, Don Mercedes participated in a conference on the family in Lombardy.” This past summer, civil authorities concluded the trial of Inzoli, convicting him of eight offenses, while another 15 charges were beyond the statute of limitations. Inzoli was sentenced to 4 years and 9 months by the Italian Court.

 

2. The sex abuse victims of the Argentina/Italy Provolo Institute for Deaf and Mute

In December 2013, a group of deaf and mute students from the Italian Provolo Institute in Verona who were sex abuse victims of Fr. Nicola Corradi wrote directly to Pope Francis notifying him that Corradi had sexually abused them and informed the Pope that Fr. Corradi was still in ministry with deaf and mute children in Francis' native Argentina.  The letter to Pope Francis details the heartbreakingly brutal treatment of abuse victims by the Vatican: We are a group of former students of the Antonio Provolo Institute for the Deaf and Dumb of Verona (Italy) who told the press about the abuses committed by paedophile priests at the Institute. This was done only after three years of fruitless contacts with the Curia of Verona and in order to prevent what happened to us from happening to other children. The Bishop of Verona, who had been aware of what was going on, immediately accused us of being slanderers. On May 9, 2014, the eight Provolo victims of Italy sent Pope Francis a video message pleading for justice. They asked the Pope for safety measures to protect children. After repeated pleas and requests to the Vatican, in February 2016, the Vatican informed the victims that the Pope had referred the matter to the Italian Bishops’ Conference, refusing their request for an independent investigation. For three years, Fr. Corradi remained at the school, after Pope Francis was informed that an active child predator priest was teaching deaf and mute children in Argentina. In late November 2016, Argentine Police arrested the 82-year old Rev. Corradi, 55-year-old priest Horacio Corbacho, and three other men. They are accused of sexual and physical child abuse at the Antonio Provolo Institute in northwestern Mendoza province in Argentina. When the police raided the school in Argentina’s Mendoza province, they found pornography and about $34,000 in Fr. Corradi’s room. Now at least 60 students of the Provolo Institute in Argentina have come forward seeking justice for the abuse they say they suffered at the hands of the accused men. Read about the school of horrors here.

 

3. Belgian Cardinal Danneels In 2010, Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels was caught on tape attempting to cover up years of abuse involving his close friend and fellow bishop, Roger Vangheluwe, then-Bishop of Bruges.

The victim on the 2010 tape was Bishop Vangheluwe’s nephew. In a meeting, which was secretly recorded, Cardinal Danneels directed the abuse victim to remain silent about the abuse, while telling him to “ask for forgiveness” and “acknowledge your own guilt.” When the tape was leaked shortly after the meeting, Bishop Vangheluwe admitted to the sexual abuse of his nephew and stepped down from his post. While Pope Francis has repeatedly assured Catholics that bishops who cover up abuse will be removed from office, Danneels was instead rewarded. In addition to having Cardinal Danneels accompany him on his initial presentation to Catholics on the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica, Pope Francis ignored the outcry as he made Danneels one of his personal appointments to both the first and second Synod on the Family.

 

4. Honduran Cardinal Maradiaga Shortly after his election as Pope, Francis named Honduran Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga as the head of the C9, the newly created Papal Cabinet of Cardinals.

As head of the C9, Maradiaga is sometimes dubbed the “vice pope.” Yet, there are questions about how seriously Maradiaga takes the sex abuse crisis. He came under withering attack in 2002 for an interview he did with the Italian Catholic publication 30 Giorni. Maradiaga claimed that Jews influenced the Boston Globe to exploit the controversy regarding sexual abuse by Catholic priests in order to divert attention from the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. The "fury" with which the press reported the scandal, Maradiaga said, "reminds me of the times of Diocletian and Nero and, more recently, Stalin and Hitler." "It certainly makes me think that in a moment in which all the attention of the mass media was focused on the Middle East, all the many injustices done against the Palestinian people, the print media and the TV in the United States became obsessed with sexual scandals that happened 40 years ago, 30 years ago.” Advertisement Cardinal Maradiaga also expressed his allegiance to priests over victims: ''For me it would be a tragedy to reduce the role of a pastor to that of a cop. We are totally different, and I'd be prepared to go to jail rather than harm one of my priests.''

5. Chilean Cardinal Errazuriz After the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith found Chilean priest-predator Fr. Karadima guilty of sexual abuse of minors, Pope Francis appointed Karadima’s bishop, Chilean Cardinal Errázuriz, to his powerful Council of Cardinals (C9).

Cardinal Errazuriz first was informed of abuse by Fr. Karadima by a young male victim/parishioner who assumed an investigation would be opened.  According to the New York Times, “The cardinal sent back a note, saying he was praying for Mr. Murillo, but failed to open a preliminary investigation. He chose not to do so, the cardinal said in an e-mailed response, because ‘unfortunately, I judged that the accusations were not credible at the time.’” The Karadima appeals judge criticized Cardinal Errázuriz for not acting on the Karadima allegations for years, and protecting a sexual predator of children. The Karadima abuse victims were enraged over Errázuriz’s appointment to the Council of Cardinals. "Why would Pope Francis, who's trying to clean up the church, pick a man like Errázuriz who has done so much harm to so many, by his actions?" asked victim Juan Carlos Cruz. "Errázuriz said he did not believe us, and minimized sex abuse cases.”

 

6. Chilean Bishop Barros In March 2015, Pope Francis appointed Bishop Juan Barros to lead the Diocese of Osorno, Chile.  

The Fr. Karadima sex abuse victims and Osorno Catholics were furious over this papal selection because of Bishop Barros’ long association with Fr. Karadima. The priest-predator was in fact a longtime mentor to Barros. Over 1,300 Catholics in Osorno, along with 30 diocesan priests, and 120 members of the Chilean Parliament sent a letter to Pope Francis urging him to rescind the appointment of Bishop Barros which was scheduled for March 21, 2015. The bishops of Chile supported Barros against the accusers and the Vatican rejected the accusations. In May 2015, Pope Francis was filmed criticizing Chilean Catholics who protested Barros’ appointment. Francis called them “stupid” for believing the allegations against Barros. The accusations were very severe including two former seminarians claiming that Barros was in the room when they were abused by Karadima. Worldwide media coverage reported that thousands of Catholics, dressed in black, stormed the Cathedral of San Mateo during Barros’ installation ceremony.

Well at least you are consistent. I dunno if I would call Pope Francis worse than the other popes with respect to the sexual abuse crisis. It seems to me that he is more of a clean up man, and is not doing a very good job of cleaning things up. But you don't put primary blame on the clean up man, you put primary blame on the folks who allowed the mess in the first place.