Cardinal Pell's Appeal dismissed

[BarbTherese]

Catholic Leader: http://catholicleader.com.au/news/cardinal-george-pells-sexual-abuse-conviction-appeal-dismissed-by-victorian-court

Quote

 

Excerpt:  The Cardinal’s appeal was dismissed by the Victorian Court of Appeal – a 2-1 split decision by the judges that opens the way for a possible High Court appeal.

However, he faces a potential Vatican trial and laicisation, after rising to become one of the Church’s most senior global figures.

 

More detailed report: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-21/george-pell-has-lost-his-appeal-what-happens-next/11434216

Cardinal Pell's appeal has been dismissed

Quote

 

Excerpts:  Cardinal Pell was sentenced to six years' prison with a non-parole period of three years and eight months.

What can happen now?

Cardinal Pell can seek special leave to appeal to the High Court. If the High Court denies permission, the matter is finalised; if given, it will later deliver a final judgment.

Save for a successful appeal in the High Court, Pope Francis will likely expel Cardinal Pell from the priesthood. The family of the second survivor is suing him and or the church for civil damages, as may others. Cardinal Pell will remain in jail.

It is exceptionally difficult for survivors of child sexual abuse to bring successful criminal complaints, especially against powerful offenders. This judgment may encourage other courageous survivors to make complaints.

Yet many systemic reforms are still required to better facilitate prosecutions of child sexual offences.

 

 

[cruciatacara]

For me, all his cover-ups of other pedophile priests in Melbourne and Ballarat (and probably elsewhere in Australia) is also a heinous crime. There should be a jail sentence for covering up crimes against children.

[Guest]

A Vatican representative made a statement that didn't say what had not been said before.  It was very short and my apologies, I cannot recall the exact statement.

A reporter called out a question but the representative just smiled and walked off.  It is a lack of transparency that persists and is, I think, a type of cover up. 

[Guest]

Cardinal Pell has 28 days to appeal to the High Court.

[Guest]

High Court Appeal and then The Vatican

https://www.9news.com.au/national/george-pell-appeal-how-high-court-holds-final-legal-avenue-to-have-conviction-overturned-news-update/242704d2-0f82-4de1-b8a6-76b3bdfb6eb2?ocid=edm-nine.com.au-ninedaily--190822&mktg_scr=edm-ninedaily

[cruciatacara]

It is unlikely that the High Court will accept the case because it deals with matters of law and the two issues of law that were raised in the appeal were rejected unanimously by all three appeal judges. The one issue (of veracity of the witness) is not usually something that the High Court deals with. That being said, the case is very high profile and the High Court might agree to take it on simply because of this.

[Guest]

A matter of wait and see I think. If the High Court does take it on, then after that it will be a Vatican investigation, which will happen anyway.

Quote

The Catholic archbishop of Sydney, Anthony Fisher:

"Matters of the Cardinal’s status within the Church can only be determined by the Vatican, not the Church in Australia. I anticipate that the Holy See may well wait until the appeal process has been exhausted." https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/aug/21/cardinal-george-pell-appeal-sexual-assault-conviction

 

[cruciatacara]

Whatever happens, I hope it has been a wake up call to the Church to get their house in order with regard to the sexual abuses of children.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

Whatever happens, I hope it has been a wake up call to the Church to get their house in order with regard to the sexual abuses of children.

Amen to that.  We can hope and we can pray.

 

 

__________________________

Melbourne Archbishop Peter Comensoli says he believes both George Pell and his victim 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-22/melbourne-archbishop-says-he-believes-george-pell-is-innocent/11437882

[cruciatacara]

I think that is wishful thinking on the part of Archbishop Comensoli because I have lived in Melbourne or Ballarat all my life and George Pell was not a man who could have been easily mistaken for someone else. We all knew him and what he looked like. And how he behaved. I think justice has been done and am saddened that Pell can't admit his sin/crime and accept that he has to do penance and jail time for it. I am also disappointed that the Church is once again taking the side of the offender (convicted) and not the victim. Just admitting that he was abused isn't enough... it's time to believe the victims.

[Guest]

I very much agree with you.

14 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

I think that is wishful thinking on the part of Archbishop Comensoli

If an ordinary Catholic stated what the Archbishop did, it is one thing - for an Archbishop to state it publicly at this point (nothing judicially finally settled) carries some weight and quite wrongly timed - and does make me wonder where our hierarchy's head in Australia might be.  They state that they will accept the outcome of the Cardinal Pell charges - but will they really?

Sometimes, our hierarchy know how to say all the right words - however, putting into practise behind the scenes can be another matter entirely.  I experienced this with the subject of (my) mental illness and Church authority.  I am very much hoping victims of sexual abuse will not experience this, while I do fear they could.

Words are one thing, changing one's thinking is another entirely and far more difficult.  It is the challenge for our Church authorities.

Edited August 23, 2019 by BarbaraTherese

[Lilllabettt]

14 hours ago, cruciatacara said:

I think that is wishful thinking on the part of Archbishop Comensoli because I have lived in Melbourne or Ballarat all my life and George Pell was not a man who could have been easily mistaken for someone else. We all knew him and what he looked like. And how he behaved. I think justice has been done and am saddened that Pell can't admit his sin/crime and accept that he has to do penance and jail time for it. I am also disappointed that the Church is once again taking the side of the offender (convicted) and not the victim. Just admitting that he was abused isn't enough... it's time to believe the victims.

You knew how he behaved? How did he behave?

[cruciatacara]

9 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

You knew how he behaved? How did he behave?

Ah the stories I could tell you! If only this were the proper forum for it, but it isn't. My knowledge of him is quite personal, but because of that, I will keep it personal. Thank you for your interest though.

[Lilllabettt]

9 minutes ago, cruciatacara said:

Ah the stories I could tell you! If only this were the proper forum for it, but it isn't. My knowledge of him is quite personal, but because of that, I will keep it personal. Thank you for your interest though.

Pardon me. When you said "we all knew", I thought it was publicly known. 

[cruciatacara]

2 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Pardon me. When you said "we all knew", I thought it was publicly known. 

You are correct in that I said: "We all knew him and what he looked like. And how he behaved." Let me explain a little further what I meant.

To go into any detail about his behaviour in both Ballarat and Melbourne would not be appropriate for this forum, especially as the charges that were initially laid against him for offences in Ballarat were eventually not brought to trial. But they were definitely well known by the public here. And those of us who interacted with him personally have stories to tell, but as I say, not appropriate here.

The statement I made was actually intended merely to support my contention that it would be difficult for any Catholic who lives in the state of Victoria (and perhaps even all of Australia) to mistake Pell for any other priest, especially as he played significant roles in both Ballarat and Melbourne prior to becoming a cardinal.

And at the time of the abuse at the Cathedral, he was the Archbishop... a very recognizable figure, certainly not unrecognizable to Catholics in Melbourne, especially those who attended Cathedral services.

I was making my case in responding to the statement by Archbishop Comensoli that he believed the victim was abused but that he believed the victim was mistaken in who did it to him. This is simply not reasonable in my humble opinion.

Perhaps Archbishop Comensoli is just trying to support Pell while also accepting the veracity of the victim. He is sitting on the fence because he doesn't know what to think, perhaps.