Apotheoun Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Here are a couple of things that Calvin said about predestination: "We call predestination God's eternal decree by which He compacted with Himself what He willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is foreordained for some, eternal damnation for others. Therefore, as any man has been created to one or the other of these ends, we speak of him as predestined to life or to death." [John Calvin, [u]The Institutes of the Christian Religion[/u], book III, chap. 21, no. 5] "As scripture, then, clearly shows, we say that God once established by His eternal and unchangeable plan those whom He long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, He would devote to destruction. We assert that, with respect to the elect, this plan was founded upon His freely given mercy, without regard to human worth; but by His just and irreprehensible but incomprehensible judgment He has barred the door of life to those whom He has given over to damnation. Now among the elect we regard the call as a testimony of election. Then we hold justification another sign of its manifestation, until they come into the glory in which the fulfillment of that election lies. But as the Lord seals His elect by call and justification, so, by shutting off the reprobate from knowledge of His name or from the sanctification of His Spirit, He, as it were, reveals by these marks what sort of judgment awaits them." [John Calvin, [u]The Institutes of the Christian Religion[/u], book III, chap. 21, Summary] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Apotheon, You were quicker with the quotes than I was! I knew those were there, I just didn't have time before now to look them up! J. Calvin, these quotes illustrate well the problems that Catholics have with Calvinism. How do you see them fitting with justification? peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 [quote]But isn't that contradictory, Jeff? How does that work? [/quote] Complete aside, but I find it amusing the way you ask yourself questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 hahaha, its sort of a tongue-in-cheek, blue-collar reference to the way Aquinas structured the Summa, but it also makes writing long posts more interesting for me personally and (im glad) the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysologus Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Even worse than this is the Calvinist belief that Jesus only died for the elect, and not for all! A Calvinist can't say "Jesus loves you" to everyone, because he or she doesn't know if Jesus actually loves and died for that particular person. It's very bad theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Christ did die for all...but is it not ONLY the elect who will know what a relationship with Christ truly is? many are called, the offer of salvation is extended to all, but the chosen are few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Jul 1 2004, 05:04 PM'] Christ did die for all...but is it not ONLY the elect who will know what a relationship with Christ truly is? many are called, the offer of salvation is extended to all, but the chosen are few. [/quote] Can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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