littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 ,Aug 29 2003, 11:13 PM] So what you're saying is that I'm not a saint already? (regardless of any miracles GOD has done and decided to use me, not that I'VE done) God does miracles, the saints intercede for us, their the instruments God uses to show His Glory God BLess! +JMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 (Rev. 8:3?4)"[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16) 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1-4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ?s role as mediator. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit" (Jas. 5:16-18). Yet those Christians in heaven are more righteous, since they have been made perfect to stand in God?s presence (Heb. 12:22-23), than anyone on earth, meaning their prayers would be even more efficacious. More (Ps. 103:20-21) http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp just as you would ask a friend in class to pray that you pass your math test, is the same way with the saints. just because you kneel by your bed to say your prayers doesn't mean your praying to the bed, it means your praying to God above. well,its the same thing with the statutes, etc. we have st. francis in front of us, but we are not worshipping the statute, we're asknig for his help (like a friend) who's in heaven. God bLess! +JMJ hope that helps! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 (edited) Let me use the bible to explain why you should be able to back up everything with scripture.... Mar 12:24 Jesus answered them, "How wrong you are! And do you know why? It is because you don't know the Scriptures or God's power. Luk 10:25 A teacher of the Law came up and tried to trap Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to receive eternal life?" Luk 10:26 Jesus answered him, "What do the Scriptures say? How do you interpret them?" Luk 10:27 The man answered, " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind'; and 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself.' " Luk 10:28 "You are right," Jesus replied; "do this and you will live." Act 18:28 For with his strong arguments he defeated the Jews in public debates by proving from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus always used the scriptures when he preached. Why do you think that the church should be able preach without them. Are the people in your church greater than Jesus? 2Ti 3:15 and you remember that ever since you were a child, you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. According to Paul... The scriptures are able to provide us with the wisdom that leads to salvation. IF THIS IS TRUE.... AND YOUR BIBLE SAYS SO... WHY DO YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE... honestly? What more do you need than the stuff that leads to salvation??? Please provide me with some elightenment, especially on the last point because it seems to me that either you are wrong or the bible is wrong... Edited August 30, 2003 by skuba steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Jesus always used the scriptures when he preached. Why do you think that the church should be able preach without them. Are the people in your church greater than Jesus? ~Skuba Steve sometimes Jesus said stuff like "It is written" Sometimes He said stuff like "Now i say unto you" and i distictly remember Him saying "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now, but when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide u into all truth" all that you sited just proved that the scriptures are the Inspired Word of God. It doesn't prove that anything not directly spoken of in Scripture is untrue. and again, the word NEED is too often used, do we NEED anything else other than say Jesus? technically not really. Jesus brings us to salvation. but i keep sayin, there's more stuff He wants us to see. More stuff He wants us to do. And the Spirit of Truth is leading the Chuch into all truth that we may know what is to be believed when the Scriptures are not specific. If the Scriptures neither approve of nor disapprove of something, we need the Spirit of Truth to tell the Church what is true that it may be a Pillar and Fire of Truth. Pax et Amo Christi! .. I hope i helped, if not, just tell me why not, and ill see if i can do better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith? bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuba steve Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 ur arguments are just getting weaker and weaker then you go off the topic and answer questions that weren't even asked... im really starting to lose all faith in you guys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 8388608 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 87751 bytes) in /home/virtual/site42/fst/var/www/html/phorum/sources/Topics.php on line 924 i cant read the first page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 well its a good answer thats simple enough and written in english :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 aren't you goign to answer it steve? im not losing faith in you! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 30, 2003 Author Share Posted August 30, 2003 ur arguments are just getting weaker and weaker then you go off the topic and answer questions that weren't even asked... im really starting to lose all faith in you guys.... ......... ummm....... DITTO!!! i have yet to see a convincing argument from you it really annoys me when you do that steve. Youre just like,,, Youre arguments are weak, but you dont respond 2 them or nuthin, u just say theyre weak and move on on ur merry way as if you had made some sort of point. Lord, increase my charity. Squelch my anger. Let all my words be sent in love and recieved in love. i mean, if you just ignore our entire argument, then i guess it will seem week to you Pax et Amo Christi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 wait! now you aren't answering questions now steve? Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith? now answering that will be something :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Where does Jesus or the apostles say the Bible is the sole rule of faith? Steve can you answer this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 [jas]: Do you ask your friends or family to pray for you and with you? Asking a saint to intercede for you is exactly the same thing. Asking someone on earth to pray for you takes no focus off Jesus, so why should you believe asking someone in heaven can do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Here's something to take note... When Jesus said to follow the Scriptures, the NT wasn't written at that time. Therefore, would that only regard the OT? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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