New website for Elysburg Carmel

[andibc]

Wonderful nuns, extraordinary form.

https://www.elysburgcarmelites.org/

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by andibc

[Kateri89]

I’ve been reading up on these nuns and the new monastery/village they’re constructing and it sounds AMAZING.  They’re building everything with 14th century techniques do that it’s built to last.

[Chiquitunga]

On 7/6/2019 at 2:09 PM, Kateri89 said:

I’ve been reading up on these nuns and the new monastery/village they’re constructing and it sounds AMAZING.  They’re building everything with 14th century techniques do that it’s built to last.

That's Fairfield, but a foundation from Elysburg : )   https://www.fairfieldcarmelites.org 

Also, Philadelphia (from Elysburg & Valpariaso) has a new site too. A lot of it is from archives of their old site, but this one's new, https://philadelphiacarmelites.org

[Kateri89]

On 7/8/2019 at 8:23 AM, Chiquitunga said:

That's Fairfield, but a foundation from Elysburg : )   https://www.fairfieldcarmelites.org 

Also, Philadelphia (from Elysburg & Valpariaso) has a new site too. A lot of it is from archives of their old site, but this one's new, https://philadelphiacarmelites.org

Oh okay, I thought the Elysburg Carmel was becoming the Fairfield Carmel.  Do all of these monasteries have the EF?

[truthfinder]

54 minutes ago, Kateri89 said:

Oh okay, I thought the Elysburg Carmel was becoming the Fairfield Carmel.  Do all of these monasteries have the EF?

From what I understand, Elysburg was originally going to transfer to Fairfield. But by the looks of it, Fairfield has become a new foundation - so who know what's happening with Elysburg in terms of their needed renovation.  All these monasteries do have EF predominately, the exception being Kensingston which appears by their calendar to have it very infrequently now.

[Nunsuch]

truthfinder said: "From what I understand, Elysburg was originally going to transfer to Fairfield. But by the looks of it, Fairfield has become a new foundation - so who know what's happening with Elysburg in terms of their needed renovation.  All these monasteries do have EF predominately, the exception being Kensingston which appears by their calendar to have it very infrequently now."

And this may be a reason NOT to join a community simply because of whether or not it has a particular form of liturgy, or a particular form of habit, or.... These things are not central to their charism, and may change at any time, as with Kensington. [Please note: I am *not* expressing disapproval of anything, simply noting that some things are not intrinsic to a particular charism.

[truthfinder]

18 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

 

And this may be a reason NOT to join a community simply because of whether or not it has a particular form of liturgy, or a particular form of habit, or.... These things are not central to their charism, and may change at any time, as with Kensington. [Please note: I am *not* expressing disapproval of anything, simply noting that some things are not intrinsic to a particular charism.

I wouldn't say its their charism, but the JMJ Carmels make it a strong part of their identity to be attached to the EF.  Kensington seems to have gone a different path (I note that it does not state on their website that they pray Prime - which for many other EF communities is a really strong indicator.) Other JMJ Carmels have gone further in the other direction, switching to the Carmelite Rite Breviaries (which even the St. Teresa's Discalced Carmelites wouldn't have used).  My point was that most of the JMJ Carmels have the EF (and the trad. chaplains to go with that), but mileage may vary.

[Nunsuch]

4 hours ago, truthfinder said:

I wouldn't say its their charism, but the JMJ Carmels make it a strong part of their identity to be attached to the EF.  Kensington seems to have gone a different path (I note that it does not state on their website that they pray Prime - which for many other EF communities is a really strong indicator.) Other JMJ Carmels have gone further in the other direction, switching to the Carmelite Rite Breviaries (which even the St. Teresa's Discalced Carmelites wouldn't have used).  My point was that most of the JMJ Carmels have the EF (and the trad. chaplains to go with that), but mileage may vary.

I'm sorry, but the charism is what fundamentally defines and characterizes a religious community.It is, fundamentally spiritual. One may regard the form of liturgy as important, but--so long as it is approved as valid by Rome--it is not central to what any religious congregation is all about. If it is, then it is not really remaining faithful to charism as central. The same can be said for habits, etc. This--like ministry--is really instrumentalism.

In the past, many people saw charism as a gift particularly bestowed on a founder. But (in part because founder identity is often very unclear--for example, clerics were often "officially" regarded as the " founders" of women's congregations, when they were not) now theologians of religious life are more inclined to understand charism as more of a "deep story" that belongs to the congregation and evolves over time (i.e., is not static).

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, Nunsuch said:

I'm sorry, but the charism is what fundamentally defines and characterizes a religious community.It is, fundamentally spiritual. One may regard the form of liturgy as important, but--so long as it is approved as valid by Rome--it is not central to what any religious congregation is all about. If it is, then it is not really remaining faithful to charism as central. The same can be said for habits, etc. This--like ministry--is really instrumentalism.

In the past, many people saw charism as a gift particularly bestowed on a founder. But (in part because founder identity is often very unclear--for example, clerics were often "officially" regarded as the " founders" of women's congregations, when they were not) now theologians of religious life are more inclined to understand charism as more of a "deep story" that belongs to the congregation and evolves over time (i.e., is not static).

That's why I said I wouldn't call it their charism, because it is not.  I think we're essentially thinking along the same path although your statement is clearer. 

 

[GraceUk]

I think the habit and form of mass is quite important. I remember Mother Angelica went back to a more traditional habit and full veil. Now why would she do that if it didn't matter at all. Im not saying discerners should say oh thats my favourite habit im entering that order. But in many cases the habit and form of liturgy is an outward expression of whether an order is more traditionsl or is going down a more modern path. Thats my take anyway.

[Nunsuch]

36 minutes ago, GraceUk said:

I think the habit and form of mass is quite important. I remember Mother Angelica went back to a more traditional habit and full veil. Now why would she do that if it didn't matter at all. Im not saying discerners should say oh thats my favourite habit im entering that order. But in many cases the habit and form of liturgy is an outward expression of whether an order is more traditionsl or is going down a more modern path. Thats my take anyway.

I am not saying it might not be important (to some people). I'm saying it isn't fundamentally an issue of charism. If Mother Angelica--or you, for that matter--finds a traditional habit to be important, fine. But are you suggesting that when she wore a modified habit--or anyone else who does--is somehow violating or ignoring the essential charism? In this, "Truthfinder" is absolutely correct. 

Further, some communities never "traditionally" wore a habit. Yet they are officially approved by Rome. So, for them, "tradition" is not based on attire.

I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm simply saying that habits, and even liturgical forms, are not charismic. Nor is teaching, or nursing, or whatever (those are instrumental). 

[andibc]

Regarding Elysburg, there is such an abundance of the vocations that it was discerned that Fairfield should be a new foundation.  Elysburg continues to have entrances (two this summer) and professions. Next month Cardinal Burke will preside at a clothing. The renovations have been made and they even have a new timber frame barn for the cows and other animals. 

[truthfinder]

5 hours ago, andibc said:

Regarding Elysburg, there is such an abundance of the vocations that it was discerned that Fairfield should be a new foundation.  Elysburg continues to have entrances (two this summer) and professions. Next month Cardinal Burke will preside at a clothing. The renovations have been made and they even have a new timber frame barn for the cows and other animals. 

Excellent - thanks for the update!

[Chiquitunga]

Regarding Kensington and the old Office, yes they use the new one now and mostly in English, with some Latin. They received the permission to use the UK version too, like Mother Angelica’s PCPAs (but I may be mistaken on the PCPAs. I remember reading that here years ago) Yes, more often than not they have the Ordinary Form, although they recently received a very good Jesuit chaplain who often offered the old Mass at another Carmel when he was on the East Coast. Anyway, so I think they are still in flux. The community is small but beautiful.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Chiquitunga