Mental Illness Sufferers

[BarbTherese]

Sometimes what The Church puts forward as necessary to our spiritual life is for a sufferer of mental illness a sort of highest peak of  a Mount Everest to climb, it can be an impossible quest.  Sometimes for a sufferer going through a difficult patch, the best one can do is that which St Therese shared :

“For me prayer is a surge of the heart, it is a simple look towards Heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial and joy.”

+............and what St Mary of The Cross MacKillop advocated "Do what you can and leave the rest to God"

Many sufferers of MI suffer a deep sense of guilt for being unable to do what is prescribed by The Church as what they should do.  What we need to hear from The Church that it is ok and holy to do only what you can and then leave the rest Peacefully with God.

We need to be able to feel that we too are children of God, the sheep of His Fold and we need to hear His Voice too through the ministries and teachings of The Church.

I am going through a bit of a nasty patch just now and I am comfortable with myself and with my Lord in my own small but accepted by both Jesus and me sort of way, but I know of some in my type of circumstances who feel anything but that.  They have the stress of dealing with their illness as well as the stress of trying to live what can be an impossible spiritual standards asked by The Church.    I do not think that they are alone and I do feel deeply for them.  They need to hear the voice of The Good Shepherd in The Church.  They need to know that He left the 99 sheep to go after the one which was lost.  Sufferers of MI can feel so very  lost, alienated, on the fringe, on the outside in the overall scheme of things, in general society and in their Church communities............not always but some do and in my book if even only one should, it is one too many and it is the sheep that has got lost.

Prayer for victims of sexual abuse and all who suffer

Prayer for abusers

Prayer for those who covered up the crimes

Prayer that The Church will deal in a very effective and welcomed by all, transparent, manner with this terrible crisis

[Gary david]

41 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Sometimes what The Church puts forward as necessary to our spiritual life is for a sufferer of mental illness a sort of highest peak of  a Mount Everest to climb, it can be an impossible quest.  Sometimes for a sufferer going through a difficult patch, the best one can do is that which St Therese shared :

“For me prayer is a surge of the heart, it is a simple look towards Heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial and joy.”

+............and what St Mary of The Cross MacKillop advocated "Do what you can and leave the rest to God"

Many sufferers of MI suffer a deep sense of guilt for being unable to do what is prescribed by The Church as what they should do.  What we need to hear from The Church that it is ok and holy to do only what you can and then leave the rest Peacefully with God.

We need to be able to feel that we too are children of God, the sheep of His Fold and we need to hear His Voice too through the ministries and teachings of The Church.

I am going through a bit of a nasty patch just now and I am comfortable with myself and with my Lord in my own small but accepted by both Jesus and me sort of way, but I know of some in my type of circumstances who feel anything but that.  They have the stress of dealing with their illness as well as the stress of trying to live what can be an impossible spiritual standards asked by The Church.    I do not think that they are alone and I do feel deeply for them.  They need to hear the voice of The Good Shepherd in The Church.  They need to know that He left the 99 sheep to go after the one which was lost.  Sufferers of MI can feel so very  lost, alienated, on the fringe, on the outside in the overall scheme of things, in general society and in their Church communities............not always but some do and in my book if even only one should, it is one too many and it is the sheep that has got lost.

Prayer for victims of sexual abuse and all who suffer

Prayer for abusers

Prayer for those who covered up the crimes

Prayer that The Church will deal in a very effective and welcomed by all, transparent, manner with this terrible crisis

Hi Barbara. Strange that you posted this just now. I was thinking about a quote you posted a few days ago and it made me also think of the church seemingly making things more difficult than they should be. 

This was the quote you posted "

“For me prayer is a surge of the heart, it is a simple look towards Heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial andjoy.”
-St. Therese of Lisieux"

  I do this quite often and it is so simple yet profound. It is something i can understand and relate to. Maybe because i am simple minded, but thats ok. As long as i can keep my eyes on God then it means much.

  I just thought i would comment on that quote Barbara because it did stick in my mind.

  Hope you are well. God bless you....

   

Edited May 11, 2019 by Gary david

[28yrolddiscerner]

Praying with you!

 

I have depression and I feel alone, but at Mass I am in Heaven!  

 

Thank you you for this post.  Rosary for you and these intentions. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, 28yrolddiscerner said:

Praying with you!

 

I have depression and I feel alone, but at Mass I am in Heaven!  

 

Thank you you for this post.  Rosary for you and these intentions. 

Thank you for a moving post.  I am the same at Mass.  Thank you very much for prayer and for the intentions.

Depression is cruel and a very hard road.  I too am isolated in a human sense.  I have had a few nasty experiences within The Church and from those who really should know better.

I suffer bipolar but more the manic side than depression and have had one serious bout of bipolar depression - it was a sort of hell to me.

May The Lord bless you and grant you Peace.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Gary david said:

Hi Barbara. Strange that you posted this just now. I was thinking about a quote you posted a few days ago and it made me also think of the church seemingly making things more difficult than they should be. 

This was the quote you posted "

“For me prayer is a surge of the heart, it is a simple look towards Heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial andjoy.”
-St. Therese of Lisieux"

  I do this quite often and it is so simple yet profound. It is something i can understand and relate to. Maybe because i am simple minded, but thats ok. As long as i can keep my eyes on God then it means much.

  I just thought i would comment on that quote Barbara because it did stick in my mind.

  Hope you are well. God bless you....

   

Hi Garry - First, I do not find you simple minded at all.  You have made some pretty good posts on Phatmass, insightful and loving.  Of course, it all comes down to what definition one gives to "simple minded".  Simplicity is a great virtue and I think that simplicity of mind is too - "At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." Matthew Ch8.

St Therese of Lisieux is my Confirmation Patron and I love her dearly for the simplicity of life her life***(see below) has revealed to me.   I love her simplicity in interpreting The Gospel and what was in fact speculative theology - so accurately did she speculate she is now a Doctor of The Church.  So much of her thinking, her theology, was a real revelation for me.   For me, as long as God in Jesus is my all and I have my eyes on Him, I am on a safe and holy road and no one can budge me off that conviction, which was quite shaky initially.  May God bless you, Garry, with the same conviction wherever you might be on the scale of things, whatever the heck that is. 

Apparently St Therese could fall asleep during Thanksgiving after Holy Communion.  She did not distress one bit, rather she reasoned that little children could fall asleep in the arms of a loving father.

 Monastic life taught me much of great value and for a while after leaving I was still trying to live monastically.  Then I woke up that I did not have a vocation to monastic life, which was why I left and probably primarily.  It came home to me that God grants all the Graces necessary for His calls and vocations.  But my call and vocation was not monastic but to the Laity, to my baptism and The Good Lord would grant me all the Graces I needed to holiness in the Laity committed to my baptism and all it means.  I needed to explore what that meant and I did.   Not only that, He had permitted that I suffer bipolar disorder and I had to factor that in to my spirituality.  I reasoned that we do not ask a physically disabled person to run a marathon and after many attempts at trying, I had to admit to myself that there were impossible standards in The Church for me and very especially during my struggle times with bipolar.  Holiness for me became 'outside the square'.  What I needed to do was "Do what you can and leave the rest to God".  Reading that from St Mary of The Cross MacKillop (our first Aussie saint) was light to me and a read turning point, a crossroads.

I was never sure if I had done my best, in fact most often I felt I had not.  But I knew when I had done what I could and it seemed to wash over me that I could indeed leave all the rest to The Lord.  I was on a safe path.  My full and total investment was no longer in what man had to state, but in the Love and Mercy of God in all things.    It is not about what I do either in quality or quantity, never about that, rather it is the Love and Mercy of God in all things and it is all about that in praise and thanksgiving howsoever one feels comfortable in such adoration.

As a mental illness sufferer, I think we are sort of 21st century lepers rather often (there are exceptions Deo Gratius Laudate Dominum).  We know the tenderness and care Jesus seemed to have for lepers - He still does.

_____________________

*** The autobiography of St Therese is available online here: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/therese/autobio.html

Valuable info on St Therese and her theology "The Little Way" she called it: https://www.littleflower.org/therese/reflections/st-therese-and-her-little-way/

 

 

'Do all you can with the means at your disposal and calmly leave the rest to God.' (1891) - St Mary of The Cross MacKillop

 

[Gary david]

36 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Hi Garry - First, I do not find you simple minded at all.  You have made some pretty good posts on Phatmass, insightful and loving.  Of course, it all comes down to what definition one gives to "simple minded".  Simplicity is a great virtue and I think that simplicity of mind is too - "At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." Matthew Ch8.

St Therese of Lisieux is my Confirmation Patron and I love her dearly for the simplicity of life her life***(see below) has revealed to me.   I love her simplicity in interpreting The Gospel and what was in fact speculative theology - so accurately did she speculate she is now a Doctor of The Church.  So much of her thinking, her theology, was a real revelation for me.   For me, as long as God in Jesus is my all and I have my eyes on Him, I am on a safe and holy road and no one can budge me off that conviction, which was quite shaky initially.  May God bless you, Garry, with the same conviction wherever you might be on the scale of things, whatever the heck that is. 

Apparently St Therese could fall asleep during Thanksgiving after Holy Communion.  She did not distress one bit, rather she reasoned that little children could fall asleep in the arms of a loving father.

 Monastic life taught me much of great value and for a while after leaving I was still trying to live monastically.  Then I woke up that I did not have a vocation to monastic life, which was why I left and probably primarily.  It came home to me that God grants all the Graces necessary for His calls and vocations.  But my call and vocation was not monastic but to the Laity, to my baptism and The Good Lord would grant me all the Graces I needed to holiness in the Laity committed to my baptism and all it means.  I needed to explore what that meant and I did.   Not only that, He had permitted that I suffer bipolar disorder and I had to factor that in to my spirituality.  I reasoned that we do not ask a physically disabled person to run a marathon and after many attempts at trying, I had to admit to myself that there were impossible standards in The Church for me and very especially during my struggle times with bipolar.  Holiness for me became 'outside the square'.  What I needed to do was "Do what you can and leave the rest to God".  Reading that from St Mary of The Cross MacKillop (our first Aussie saint) was light to me and a read turning point, a crossroads.

I was never sure if I had done my best, in fact most often I felt I had not.  But I knew when I had done what I could and it seemed to wash over me that I could indeed leave all the rest to The Lord.  I was on a safe path.  My full and total investment was no longer in what man had to state, but in the Love and Mercy of God in all things.    It is not about what I do either in quality or quantity, never about that, rather it is the Love and Mercy of God in all things and it is all about that in praise and thanksgiving howsoever one feels comfortable in such adoration.

As a mental illness sufferer, I think we are sort of 21st century lepers rather often (there are exceptions Deo Gratius Laudate Dominum).  We know the tenderness and care Jesus seemed to have for lepers - He still does.

_____________________

*** The autobiography of St Therese is available online here: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/therese/autobio.html

Valuable info on St Therese and her theology "The Little Way" she called it: https://www.littleflower.org/therese/reflections/st-therese-and-her-little-way/

 

 

'Do all you can with the means at your disposal and calmly leave the rest to God.' (1891) - St Mary of The Cross MacKillop

 

Hi Barbara. I have read your response and appreciate a glimpse into your life and your truthful comments. I suppose by simplemindedness I mean that there are many things especially concerning doctrine that causes difficulty and confusion for me. It distracts me from thinking of Jesus in a way that I feel far more closer to God not trying to understand it all. I tbink I said before that I feel I need to be a lawyer to understand it. But I feel I understand enough of it.

  I cannot comment on monastic life forI have no experience with it but try and learn some of it through others experiences. I see that bipolar disorder causes much suffering, interior suffering. There are many other disorders people have that also cause much interior suffering and physical as well. But as you said, God has His plan for His glory and things such as these are part of it. Commenting further on this would be fruitless because I dont understand them and am not certain that anyone else does either besides God. The mind is a very sensitive and complicated place Barbara. My father suffered terribly from depression when he got older. To this day I dont understant it. I just know he suffered much from it. He suffered i think the most because he felt shame for having lost control of his mind. I know because he told me and i could see it as well. We can be horribly self judgmental on ourselves without any help from others.

  If i were given a choice at being well versed, intellegent but full of self pride or being a leper. Than make me a leper Lord.

  Thank you again Barbara for the time to express and explain things as you have. We are living books and on this day have filled another page. Somewheres in the night another page will turn ready for to begin writing another day. Where we are in our book no one knows, so we should write on tomorrows page a if it were our last. Its the book we put into the hands of Jesus on the last day.

  God bless you Barbara....

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Gary david said:

Hi Barbara. I have read your response and appreciate a glimpse into your life and your truthful comments. I suppose by simplemindedness I mean that there are many things especially concerning doctrine that causes difficulty and confusion for me. It distracts me from thinking of Jesus in a way that I feel far more closer to God not trying to understand it all. I tbink I said before that I feel I need to be a lawyer to understand it. But I feel I understand enough of it.

  I cannot comment on monastic life forI have no experience with it but try and learn some of it through others experiences. I see that bipolar disorder causes much suffering, interior suffering. There are many other disorders people have that also cause much interior suffering and physical as well. But as you said, God has His plan for His glory and things such as these are part of it. Commenting further on this would be fruitless because I dont understand them and am not certain that anyone else does either besides God. The mind is a very sensitive and complicated place Barbara. My father suffered terribly from depression when he got older. To this day I dont understant it. I just know he suffered much from it. He suffered i think the most because he felt shame for having lost control of his mind. I know because he told me and i could see it as well. We can be horribly self judgmental on ourselves without any help from others.

  If i were given a choice at being well versed, intellegent but full of self pride or being a leper. Than make me a leper Lord.

  Thank you again Barbara for the time to express and explain things as you have. We are living books and on this day have filled another page. Somewheres in the night another page will turn ready for to begin writing another day. Where we are in our book no one knows, so we should write on tomorrows page a if it were our last. Its the book we put into the hands of Jesus on the last day.

  God bless you Barbara....

 

Garry, another very dear, loving, insightful and humble post.  Thank you.

There is much I cannot understand either in complex Church matters.  I figure that I will know whatever God wants me to know, whatever I need to know for the journey.  He always provides all that is required for all calls and vocations, including the Grace to holiness.

When The Church speaks, she must be speaking too to very complex and highly intelligent and educated minds on many matters and so, I figure, at times matters are too complex for me to grasp and I can leave it Peacefully at that and move on.

Indeed, the mind can be "very sensitive and complex" and we can only do what we can with what we have and leave the rest to God.  I do think when you loose your own mind, you know you have been really stripped of everything.  It is a terrible experience to not to be able to trust your own thoughts, but it has a good side in that a person can lose the need for what was once held most dear and necessary, other than The Good God and His Grace.  It is not easy, not easy at all, it is overwhelmingly difficult and demanding to love and support a sufferer of mental illness (depression is a mental illness).  MI is probably just as confusing to any carer as it is to the sufferer, possibly and perhaps in different ways.  The various mental illnesses are complex and very often there are unique features to each individual sufferer.  We cannot be put into a nice tidy compartment where one size will fit all.

If one suffers in any way, it is a suffering present for The Glory of God........and that can be a very confusing even humanly hurtful matter, but true nevertheless (Doctrine of Divine Providence).  Some answers are a mystery and must be left in God Who Is The Ultimate Mystery..........perhaps we will know in Heaven.  Meanwhile, we must walk in Faith, sometimes very Dark Faith, and in trust and confidence in The Good God.

As a child, I used to wonder why in the prayer "Hail Holy Queen", we prayed "in this valley of tears".  Now I think I might understand.

Thankfully today, there is wonderful and accurate information available on the internet, providing one uses caution in discerning which sites are sound and reliable and which are perhaps questionable.  Beyondblue is an excellent Australian site with heaps of accurate information open to the worldwide web.  It is a site I know about and use now and then............but I am sure there are many others.  I also have devotion to Our Lady under her title: "Our Lady Untier of Knots".

Our Lady, Untier of Knots

The Remarkable Story Behind Mary, Undoer of Knots Will Give You Faith Through the Impossible

[Gary david]

As I Knelt Before The Lord

 

My day had finally arrived, it seemed to have come so fast.

I layed down and breathed my last.

I rose through clouds so very white.

I saw so many angels surrounding such a beautiful light.

I somehow found myself kneeling before my Lord.

I hung my head and waited for His final word.

I feared to see upon me His judgment and look.

I then noticed He was holding my book.

As He turned the pages He continued to read.

Please forgive me Lord my heart would plead.

The last page was turned, this was it, I could tell.

Please oh Lord dont open the gates of hell.

As my tears fell I felt so small, so weak.

My heart leaped as His hand was upon my cheek.

As I looked up upon His glorious face.

He smiled upon me and held me in His loving embrace.

 

 

  These were my final thoughts and visions before I went to sleep last night and I thought that they were worth sharing. They may not be my final outcome but they are certainly ones I wish they will be. They are certainly ones to reflect on knowing for sure that that day will most certainly arrive.

  God bless you Barbara and all who read this.......

 

 

 

[Guest]

What beautiful words, Garry.  You are a poet.

[Gary david]

22 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

What beautiful words, Garry.  You are a poet.

  Thank you for your compliment Barbara. I do not write poems Barbara, but once in a very great while an inspiration will have me write things such as this. I just thought they might be worthy to share.

  I meant to ask you before how your dog is feeling now? I also used to have a dog with that name.

  God bless Barbara.....

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gary david said:

  Thank you for your compliment Barbara. I do not write poems Barbara, but once in a very great while an inspiration will have me write things such as this. I just thought they might be worthy to share.

  I meant to ask you before how your dog is feeling now? I also used to have a dog with that name.

  God bless Barbara.....

Hi Garry - then once in a while you are a poet.  

Buddie has come good thankfully, a pet taxi is taking me over to the vet on Thursday for his arthritis shot.  All in all that will be around $100. Thankfully my son and his wife sent me $100 for Mother's Day.  Thank you for asking about Buddie.  It can be very difficult to get him to take his codeine medication as he is a very intelligent little dog and every so often I have to change my method because he has woken up to it and refuses it.  At the moment he is taking it crushed and sprinkled over cooked chicken and broth.   But I have to crush the tablet long before his codeine is due.   How long this method will last is anyone's guess.  

[Gary david]

26 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Hi Garry - then once in a while you are a poet.  

Buddie has come good thankfully, a pet taxi is taking me over to the vet on Thursday for his arthritis shot.  All in all that will be around $100. Thankfully my son and his wife sent me $100 for Mother's Day.  Thank you for asking about Buddie.  It can be very difficult to get him to take his codeine medication as he is a very intelligent little dog and every so often I have to change my method because he has woken up to it and refuses it.  At the moment he is taking it crushed and sprinkled over cooked chicken and broth.   But I have to crush the tablet long before his codeine is due.   How long this method will last is anyone's guess.  

  Haaaaahaaa. Well i am pleased that buddie is doing well and you had the money to take care of him or her....not sure which. But your story with the medicine did make me laugh. Some dogs if you ask me.....forgive me Lord.......seem to be more intelligent and loving than humans. You are blessed with this sort of companionship.

  Sure wish I still had mine though. So many years have passed and I still miss her. Well I am again pleased that your dog is doing well and hope you are as well.

God bless you Barbara......

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gary david said:

Sure wish I still had mine though. So many years have passed and I still miss her. Well I am again pleased that your dog is doing well and hope you are as well.

I am very sorry indeed to read you have lost a beloved pet.  To those who love them, they are just like our children, huh?  I call Buddie, male dog, and Missie, female cate, my kids.  After I lost my two dogs years ago to having to be put down, soon after I found my little cat dead on my doorstep.  Because I had been in hospital my son had my budgie.  He got up one morning and Tweetie was dead in his cage.  It all happened so quickly with each.  I grieved deeply, we were a family.

Buddie was a gift from my son and I saved Missie from being put down.  Both I suspect were runts in their litters and both suffer with anxiety separation.  Wherever I am in the house, there they are with me.

Buddie is funny really.  He wants to watch what I am doing in the kitchen and I have to crush his medication long before I sprinkle it over his cooked chicken and broth, so he will not connect the two - and over the chicken and broth, crushed medication, I sprinkle some chicken cube that is low salt and no garlic or onion.  So far so good, he hasn't woken up.  But this would have to be the sixth time or even more, certainly not less, I have had to try something different because he has woken up it contains medication and refuses it.

[Gary david]

20 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I am very sorry indeed to read you have lost a beloved pet.  To those who love them, they are just like our children, huh?  I call Buddie, male dog, and Missie, female cate, my kids.  After I lost my two dogs years ago to having to be put down, soon after I found my little cat dead on my doorstep.  Because I had been in hospital my son had my budgie.  He got up one morning and Tweetie was dead in his cage.  It all happened so quickly with each.  I grieved deeply, we were a family.

Buddie was a gift from my son and I saved Missie from being put down.  Both I suspect were runts in their litters and both suffer with anxiety separation.  Wherever I am in the house, there they are with me.

Buddie is funny really.  He wants to watch what I am doing in the kitchen and I have to crush his medication long before I sprinkle it over his cooked chicken and broth, so he will not connect the two - and over the chicken and broth, crushed medication, I sprinkle some chicken cube that is low salt and no garlic or onion.  So far so good, he hasn't woken up.  But this would have to be the sixth time or even more, certainly not less, I have had to try something different because he has woken up it contains medication and refuses it.

You have a very smart buddie! Also loves you much, I can tell. That story with the medicine is so very funny. Maybe not for you though! I thank you for expressing your sympathy at the loss of my dog. I myself have had animals before and it did bother me at their passing. But this dog which I also had named Buddy became far more special than I would have ever imagined. God is wonderful. You wouldnt think that a dog would be able to posses a stunning degree of love. I call it love, I dont know what else to call it. I guess when God creates He surely does it with love and expresses itself purely in vessels that are untainted.

  When I started my first job I had saved some money so I might go and get a dog for myself. I went to the animal shelter and looked around but didnt see one I much cared for, which was sad to see them in those cages. As i was about to leave I noticed a little tiny lump in the corner of a cage. They said it was a little puppy that didnt seem to be doing so well health wise. I asked if I could see it. It just fit  in the palm of my hand and looked at me like I can never forget. They were surprised when I told them I would take her. It was to be her last day for they were going to put her down that morning. I said "hi buddy" your going home. And so began a long growing friendship. I wouldnt have ever thought that this dog would so very attached to me almost immediatly. Couldnt put her in a cage, she would eat through wood and steel mesh, and several times at that. Just wanted to be with me and not a cage. I had left once for just over a week and in all that time.she didnt drink, dindnt eat, just layed there by the door I had left from. She may have been skin and bones when I returned but that didnt stop her from springing to life like you wouldnt believe. That told me much when that happened. She would also protect me anything that she felt threatened me. She never hurt anyone but sure scared the skin from thier bones.  We were playing once with a stick and by accident she bit my hand quite deeply and I thought she was going to die due to the fact that she harmed me, never seen anything like that either.

Now im feeling long winded. Just a little more and I will be finished.

I am allergic to bee stings so as I was walking buddy along the side of the river she suddenly froze and I didnt know why. It was to late. A giant swarm of yellowjackets were upon her and covered her body. She began to whimper terribly. My instinct told me to run for my life but something else happened instead. I bent over and held her in my arms and ran down to the riverbank and threw her in. We got back to the house alive but not untouched. She had just a few stings and I only a couple. Not something easily forgotten. And so the years passed, nineteen of them. She had gotten old and now struggled with her life. The time had arrived when I had to take her for a drive for the last time. Just had wished she hadent looked at me like that on the way to the veternarian. She knew what was going to happen. So as I lay her on the stainless steel table the doctor said she wouldnt feel a thing. I sure hope he was right. I tryed to stay but couldnt, I just couldnt so I left. I knew that experience would affect me but didnt think it would afflict me. 

  Well thats it Barbara. 19 years in a few sentences. Life sure is bittersweet. Like a big glass of lemonaid.

  And you thought you were longwinded.

God bless Barbara....

Edited May 15, 2019 by Gary david

[Guest]

What a beautiful and moving story - I have tears in my eyes.  Thank you for sharing your story of Buddy.

God bless you also, Garry